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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Random weight and move last
Random weight and move last Thu, 08 March 2007 09:04 Go to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003
According to handbook lighter ships move last, but weight is modified randomly by +-15%.
Does that mean that a ship weighing 100 has a chance to move after a ship weighing 74, as 0.85*100=85 and 74*1.15=85.1?
How is the distibution(e.g. is+10% as liekly as +15%)?
Is there any calculator?

Thanks

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Re: Random weight and move last Tue, 13 March 2007 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003
Ok, so this is not realy known.

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Re: Random weight and move last Tue, 13 March 2007 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
 The weight adjustment is linear, I believe.
So a ship that weighs 100 kT could be anywhere between 85 and 115, all with an equal chance.

I have also seen it reported that the adjustment is +/-20%, not 15%. That gives a more appealing figure of 1.5 when working out if a ship will always move before another (120/80 = 1.5)

Can't remember off top of my head.
Can't find an article on HWF using the search facility either.
Would do a test bed if important.

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Re: Random weight and move last Tue, 13 March 2007 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
 I've got an article written by James McGuigan covering the Guts of the battle engine from 2002, it says:
Quote:

At each stage the ships with the most weight will move first though there is less than a 20% difference in weight then there is a chance that the lighter ship will go first. The smaller the weight % difference the greater the chance of the lighter ship going first.


Though the help file indeed says 15% ...

<searching the rgcs article online>

For those who'd like to read the whole article, here it is.

mch

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Re: Random weight and move last Tue, 13 March 2007 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
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Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
 The help file says +/-15% - But the help file has been known to be wrong on occasion, so it could be some other figure.

I found a 20% figure in The Stars! FAQ http://www.starsfaq.com/battleengine.htm, but that does not read +/-20%, that says if there is less than 20% difference in mass, then there is a possibility that the lighter ship moves first.

Needless to say, that statement in The Stars! FAQ does not match either +/-15% or +/-20%.

Edit: Seems you just beat me to it, Micha Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 13 March 2007 16:49]



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Random weight and move last Wed, 14 March 2007 06:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
craebild wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 21:48

The help file says +/-15% - But the help file has been known to be wrong on occasion, so it could be some other figure.

I found a 20% figure in The Stars! FAQ http://www.starsfaq.com/battleengine.htm, but that does not read +/-20%, that says if there is less than 20% difference in mass, then there is a possibility that the lighter ship moves first.

Needless to say, that statement in The Stars! FAQ does not match either +/-15% or +/-20%.

Edit: Seems you just beat me to it, Micha Smile


Smile

Hey, didn't know he put it on Stars! FAQ ... I remembered reading it on the newsgroup ...

mch

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Re: Random weight and move last Wed, 14 March 2007 07:45 Go to previous message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
 Found this :-
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.games.computer.stars/br owse_thread/thread/716b210e00e2e706/48401234aa536e7a?lnk=gst &q=weight+move+last&rnum=3&hl=en#48401234aa536e7 a

Basically he's using the formula for the area of a triangle.

If we have two ships, L and H (light and heavy).
Define
Lrange = weight L * 0.4 (i.e. the +/-20%)
Hrange = weight H * 0.4
Lmax = weight L * 1.2 (i.e + 20%)
Hmin = weight H * 0.8 (i.e - 20%)

Chances of H moving last are (if Lmax >= Hmin)

(Lmax - Hmin)/Lrange * (Lmax - Hmin)/Hrange * 1/2

edited to use a more generic formula

[Updated on: Wed, 14 March 2007 08:09]

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