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What I have noticed, when using a yellow to do some popdrop tech xchange, is that 100 pop on a -5% might indeed survive a dozen turns or more before actually getting killed. Regular change of ownership might be complicating things, tho.

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Iconian wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 02:04

I did a test on this using Battlesim, colonizing all the reds in the galaxy. This wasn't pop-drop tech trading, but from what I found, even on a -45% world, 100 pop should survive 24 years. On a -15% planet, they survived 98 years. I don't know about the formulas and such, but I can send the chart I made if anyone would like.

So, it would seem it is deterministic, and not random at all?

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Correct. IIRC, I read Stars keeps track of the population on a world right down to the individual. Which seems borne out by the results above.

Supposing deaths are rounded to the nearest individual, then after 98 years starting with 100 pop on a -15% world you would expect 1 person remaining (2 dead in first year with 1.5 rounded up, then 1 per year.)

If that was actually WP0 colonise, rather than a WP1, that would explain the 1 year/1 colonist discrepancy, as the colonisation year would actually be the 99th year.

This also demonstrates that it appears stars rounds the population UP to the nearest 100 for purposes of resources etc, not DOWN.

...

That 1 last colonist must be very lonely... Also very busy - not only does he get rounded up to display as 100 people, if he was part of a HP race, he would even be doing as much work as 2500 people! He also operates one factory and one mine all by himself! 3 resources from 1 colonist! Poor little thing probably dies of stress, not from poor hab.

If he was a late game low-divisor AR he could be even busier - he could produce roundup(sqrt(100*26/7))=20 resources all by himself! Uber-Colonist!
EDIT: Well... He is on a red, so actually that'd only be 5 resources... 20 if you shipped him to a 100% green

[Updated on: Mon, 26 February 2007 21:29]

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It's also a nice way to get free pop - if you transport that 1 colonist from the surface, he gets cloned 99 times and you get 100 of him in the ships hold

Ptolemy

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Sorry, not offering solutions, merely complicating things.

gwellman wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 08:24

turn 0, waypoint 1, player 1 colonizes with 100. turn 1, waypoint 0, player 2 invades with 200. Result pop 100. ...

Invader has attack bonus, so result on surfaces is "more than 100".

mch

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gwellman wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 08:24

Thanks for the details, but I'm still confused as to what this means for tech trading via a planet that is yellow/red for both players.

Well, yes, your example more or less jibes with my experience...

If the yellow is a bit too red (say, -10% or more) the 100 pop will certainly die before long, perhaps as soon as within 20 turns.

OTOH, if you use a green, the 100 pop will grow too, perhaps as much as another 100 in just 20 turns...

All of the above with regular popdrops, of course.

So, you gotta be careful, and if possible testbed beforehand, and even so, things with techtrading are scarcely deterministic anyway.

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[Updated on: Tue, 27 February 2007 14:32]

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Ptolemy wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 00:49

It's also a nice way to get free pop - if you transport that 1 colonist from the surface, he gets cloned 99 times and you get 100 of him in the ships hold

That's usually referred to as a transporter accident.

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Marduk wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 06:06

Ptolemy wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 00:49 It's also a nice way to get free pop - if you transport that 1 colonist from the surface, he gets cloned 99 times and you get 100 of him in the ships hold That's usually referred to as a transporter accident.

More to the point, that end-game AR colonist I mentioned could use this as a means to live forever! He just has to build a space dock and a coloniser every 98 years, then have a transporter accident and recolonise with all his copies. It's a little bit like the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey, except with more babies.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 February 2007 16:55]

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iztok wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 21:28

Not necessary. The owner of the planet can "WP-0 by hand" lift ALL population (0 left), the other party drops "WP-0 by hand" 100, and the ground combat occurs with 100 survivors.

I had impression that "WP-0 by hand" cargo transfer orders are randomized?
Does lifting really occur before dropping?
In other words i believed that lifting has to be made with "WP-0 by hand" and dropping with "WP-0 by WP task" if that schema is used?

People often play their turns in hurry and between other things done. few pop on few planets are not worth the cooperative manual effort of 2 players, WP1 dropper usually automates and every-turn-effort of WP0 dropper is plenty.

In that light ... i typically suggest 200 pop on ground and 400 pop drops where WP0 dropper adjusts the amounts dropped (at cases people on ground die to 100 or WP0 dropper forgot to drop for a turn and the like).

If someone loves the nano management pain then they (even 5% HE) can handcraft all over 25% hold colonies to grow ~200 pop more by hitting the tips of the pop-growth saw-tooth. nano MM-er olympics victory goes of course to IS who manages to hit the sawtooths with his overflowed pop at all the planets and with taking into account any possible terraform done.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 February 2007 22:36]

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