| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Fri, 02 February 2007 16:57   |
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 Neo the White |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006 | |
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I guess they would need to uplift the captured pop to their own ships and then they could beam down the converted ones?
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but the assimilation modules would logically be on every bigger base. so their own planets, some assimilating ships and maybe even starbases would do the job.
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The balance should come thru the price tags of the various options, much as the current racewizard does for the rest of PRTs
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darn, forgot the race wizard points FDLOL
[Updated on: Fri, 02 February 2007 16:59] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Fri, 02 February 2007 22:43 |
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Plus you have the problem of essentially free and geometrically explosive takeover of intact enemy planets. This is a very bad thing to let into the game.
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m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 11:01]
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A planet's population does not affect how many colonists it can produce, only the resources available.
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Definitely dangerous, that. Noone (nothing) can have infinite pop on a planet, and everyone (everything) must feel the effects of overcrowding, though perhaps at higher levels than others. 
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You'd still have a maximum population per planet determined by its habitability and the traits you take. Any population above this will die off and probably should not produce any resources.
This may take some working out to make playable, maybe giving diminishing returns for amount of population on a planet like the AR gets. Actually, that sounds like the best option to me. It'd change the way they produce resources into a AR-like formula.
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You also get a toggle to select if you are Androids (+2 Elect level) or Replicants (+2 Bio level) - apart from starting tech it doesn't have any economic effect but is kinda nice for roleplaying and can also affect which traits will work better for you.
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Perhaps those could give a small discount on build cost of Elec or Bio items, too. 
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If they use an AR-like square-root formula for resources, they could get either an Electronics or Biotech factor included like the AR have Energy as a factor.
Now, I don't want to end up with something that plays too much like AR and there not being enough difference for both to be viable.
Maybe some more unique algorithm...
[Updated on: Fri, 02 February 2007 22:51] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Fri, 02 February 2007 23:38 |
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Balancing those borgs would be difficult. I'd suggest (at least) halving the growth rate shown(a la HE doubling) - round down. and having only the original population growing...drone don't breed at all.
I'd make the ability to grow/build in space a whole different RT
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 03 February 2007 00:58 |
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Either way it'd be hell to balance something like that, and it'd require a huge amount of special-case code. So it's a 99.3% NO on it, at least for now. 
Not that I have any actual say, or anything, but I was named as "part of the Nova team" whatever that's supposed to imply.
I'm willing to do the design and balancing of any race design changes, of course, or I wouldn't have bothered with this thread. But there's no guarantee or even implication that it'd ever happen, because I'm not in charge of doing the relevant coding. Others are more useful than I could be in that regard.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 February 2007 00:59] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 03 February 2007 03:41 |
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How would you like using this formula for the Synthetics?
Resources=Hab%*sqrt(½(Critical_techlevel+Average_techlevel )(Population)(Coefficient))
Alternatively, we could leave the resources as strictly additive, have overpopulation contribute zero resources, and not allow droid/clone production over the planet's maximum population.
Another alternative is to have droid/clone production cost increase with population percentage, though this wouldn't prevent overpopping worlds it would make it prohibitively expensive to sit on one planet and not expand. The explanation for this would be that you also have to build the infrastructure to support the new population, and as the planet is filled new infrastructure becomes increasingly harder to squeeze in. Let's say, that when the population of a planet is over 50% capacity, the cost of building more population is multiplied by 1+(10(population/max_capacity)-5)²/10.
I think there must be a better formula to use, but I can't think of anything!
[Updated on: Sat, 03 February 2007 04:17] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 03 February 2007 08:47 |
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| Neo the White |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006 | |
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Just want to remind again that I just try to get this Borg idea theoretically sound. if someone finds it or will find useful in future. or will not. that's ok.
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Plus you have the problem of essentially free and geometrically explosive takeover of intact enemy planets. This is a very bad thing to let into the game.
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the assimilation could be limited by defences, more defences the less Borg can steal people. with full late tech defences the assimilation would not be possible.
So it would be only after defence capacity of the planet has fallen below some level. the worser the defence % of coverage the more it could get off one planet with a limit of 200k/250k per one year.
and last thing. the idea of having some pop habitate every ship would be a bad idea. For if the Borg happens to be victorious in battles, it could converge it's fleets in one single place. that would mean more resurces for mineral alchemy and building ships bigger fleet makes greater econ.
if the crews are small then loosing ships but would not mean much loss in resources...
so not maybe that good idea then to have pop aboard every ship.
------------------------------------------------------------ -
Resources=Hab%*sqrt(½(Critical_techlevel+Average_techlevel )(Population)(Coefficient))
what is the Coefficient???
[Updated on: Sat, 03 February 2007 08:54] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 03 February 2007 08:53 |
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| Neo the White wrote on Sat, 03 February 2007 05:47 |
Just want to remind again that I just try to get this Borg idea theoretically sound. if someone finds it or will find useful in future. or will not. that's ok.
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Plus you have the problem of essentially free and geometrically explosive takeover of intact enemy planets. This is a very bad thing to let into the game.
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the assimilation could be limited by defences, more defences the less Borg can steal people. with full late tech defences the assimilation would not be possible.
So it would be only after defence capacity of the planet has fallen below some level. the worser the defence % of coverage the more it could get off one planet with a limit of 200k/250k per one year.
and last thing. the idea of
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Resources=Hab%*sqrt(½(Critical_techlevel+Average_techlevel )(Population)(Coefficient))
what is the Coefficient???
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The corefficient is set in the race wizard, like with AR.
THe thing with the Borg is not that they'll be doing this when you have defenses - it'll be that they can show up at your HW in 2410 and steal some of your people, drop them on you, and repeat. Even 2 or 3 privateers could really screw you over. And then they'd have an intact homeworld ready to go, and take over the next player by 2415...
here's a thought for you.
Don't suggest anything that you wouldn't want your enemies to be able to use against you. This gives a whole new dimension to power bloat and unstoppable uberweapons.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 February 2007 08:55] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 03 February 2007 08:55 |
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| Neo the White |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006 | |
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THe thing with the Borg is not that they'll be doing this when you have defenses - it'll be that they can show up at your HW in 2410 and steal some of your people, drop them on you, and repeat. Even 2 or 3 privateers could really screw you over. And then they'd have an intact homeworld ready to go, and take over the next player by 2415...
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for assimilation they would have to take the pop to their homeworld at first. given that assimilating ships come only in very late game.
the captured folk in freighters would be put on suspension mode
until they are actually fitted with cybernetic parts that make them Borg drones.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 February 2007 09:02] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 03 February 2007 09:00 |
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| Neo the White |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006 | |
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that conversion on it's own could take some resources and minerals.
the same would be with general Borg pop. it would grow, but needs to be converted into cyborgs.
and the conversion of their native people should be somehow cheaper and easier than converting captured alien pop.
Of course the borg would need a special electonics device that allows them to steal pop before even talking about assimilation. And if this pop-stealing gadget is assigned to a respective tech level then voila no fear of early game assimilation.
To balance the game, required tech level for this gadget should be set by considering the planetary defences. so not too early not too late.
if borg has this device it would still have to bomb the defences off the planet.
and once it gets the pop it would have to assimilate it. assimilation limit would depend on the nr. of assimilation capable ships.
these ships ofcourse would be expensive to build.
the stealing ability per one year is also limited. so if you can steal 100k or 200k from 0% defended planet then Borg still ahs to conver them into drones, before they do what it commands, and that takes time.
and if Borg goes on ground assault then if the defences are low and it has enough numbers, well what race would not fight to death. Maybe have here some low % of possibility for Borg to capture a small part of home-defenders. as long as it is some small number then it only serves to make the game feeling more real.
Also with random effects turned on there should be some low percentage of chance that the captured pop starts to rebel on borg freighter, takes the ship over and flees from the fleet...
without Borg noticing it before it has already escaped back to their HW or 1 turns distance in space with max speed.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 February 2007 09:47] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rebuilding Race Traits |
Sat, 24 February 2007 05:19 |
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Apparently my time allowed to edit the OP has expired, so I can't add this into the list.
Stargate Traveller is a powerful trait, and thus comes with a penalty: you cannot construct any ramscoop engines, even ones granted by Dirty Engines or Extended Range Engines. Ha!
The Long-range Exposed Fission Drive is available for those who take both Dirty Engines and either Extended Range Engines or Stargate Traveller, as a more advanced engine comparable to a cheaper Interspace-10.
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