I mean the game would become more diplomatic and thrilling if there would be some high officials to kidnap and assault and capture...

would add a whole range of klingon and romulan warfare into

instead of just

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Heros that grant specific RT's to the fleet/planet etc that they're with? - gible

also the reality of game would be better. just think about the Star Wars. rebels running from empire and living in underground bunker untill they emerge again...
would it be cool to have wiped out the whole race and in 10 years it reappears

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 12:39]

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Does it make sense to give it to a PRT that gets great Propulsion tech and uses stargates to get around?


It is a pretty good fuel tank. But there's no NRSE in the new list... if there was it'd work for it. What RT in the list would deserve it more? Can you come up with a new RT that it would fit better with, that is at once playable and unique and thematic?

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Does it make sense to give it to a PRT that gets great Propulsion tech and uses stargates to get around?

nope

Quote:

What RT in the list would deserve it more? Can you come up with a new RT that it would fit better with, that is at once playable and unique and thematic?

what about adding the old good NRSE. Engines that are faster in battle, increase the safe speed through enemy mines by 2 and andtimatter generator

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 13:43]

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Neo the White wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 10:40

what about adding the old good NRSE. Engines that are faster in battle, increase the safe speed through enemy mines by 2 and andtimatter generator

Coyote wrote on Sat, 27 January 2007 21:51

Tactical Agility: Your ships' speed in battle is increased by 0.5 and you can travel through minefields safely at 1 warp speed faster than normal. All engines cost 15% more. You can build the Energy Dampener. +1 starting Propulsion level.

-sigh-


This is going in circles.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 13:48]

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[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 13:46]

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if you don't like NRSE well guess it's gonna have to be so

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 13:57]

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Space Demolition: You gain access to improved minelaying pods of all types and a special minelayer hull. You can remote detonate all your minefields. You can also travel through enemy minefields safely at 1 warp speed higher than normal, stacking with Tactical Agility.

that's cool so +2 warp through enemy mines is possible.

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Biomorphic Hulls: By researching Biotechnology, the completely flexible Mini-Morph, Meta-Morph, and Ultra-Morph hulls are available to you. +1 Biotech level.

IN Stars! the bio-tech is bio-tech only by word. why not actually have the bio armor and bio ships be able for self-repair.

also why not have an semi-biological armour with better hitpoints than biological armour, cheaper than normal armour, self-repair and available only to one LRT?

thematic inspiration: Babylon 5, the Vorlons. or Borg.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 14:43]

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Economy page should have "common sanity checker" option that does not let to break it too easily by novice player. Pop efficency: Weak: 1/2500 it cant be changed Normal: 1/1000 may be changed by one click Factories: Factoryless: 5/25/5; [ ] always; unavailable with weak pop efficency; non-HE must have at least growth rate 18. Weak: 10/10/10; [ ] always; unavailable with weak pop efficency; non-HE must have at least growth rate 17. Strong: 12/9/16; optional G box; unavailable with weak pop efficency; non-HE must have at least growth rate 15. Hyper: 15/7/22; [x] always; non-HE must have at least growth rate 13. The efficency and cost may be changed by 1 click and operated may be changed by 2 clicks; on Hyper case the factories operated may be changed by 3 clicks. Mines: Efficency is 10; may be raised up to 15 Cost is 3; may be changed by one click Operated does follow the count of factories operated with minimum of 10 and it may be changed by +-3 clicks. Lots of stars! games have been won with race designs that not meet these rules, however usually the designs were taken just for challenge or did effectively differ from given rules by a quite little margin. Very Happy Nod [Updated on: Mon, 29 January 2007 03:23]

only if you can choose
beginner
not-beginner - where there are no such limits.

otherwise it would decrease playability time. that means also less fans, for sure.

it's the same with the limits to CA in Stars! community. C'mon isn't it just fun to fight against overly strong badass alien. Or especially be one

that kind of differences add to playability...

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 15:07]

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I could address every single point in this thread . . . maybe I will in the future, but at present I don't think it would be too constructive . . .

Hey, Neo! Why don't you join us over in this thread? I know you're enjoying all this brainstorming for new ideas, but right now we have a BIG surplus of ideas, and not nearly so much capability to carry those ideas out. Right now, the ideas you're sending out are going nowhere. It's kind of like your building tons of battleships from all your biggest planets, and then just launching them off into cold space--they're probably not gonna do much good.

What we really need is to get a team together that can help out with creating a game. I'm sure we could use your enthusiasm. You know what? I just had this great idea. Here's what you said in that thread:

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The graphics that Nova uses well the ships are fine but the gadgets are not even close to quality and coolness of the old Stars!.

You know what? I think you should try drawing some cool art for the new game! If what we have isn't cool enough yet, I'm sure you could definitely do better. I think everyone would love to see you try your hand at it. Or, maybe you could contact ken-reed and ask him what sort of things you could do? We need to stay on task here though: making a new Stars! game. Once we're ready, I'm sure everyone would be happy to hear your ideas, K?

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2007 00:30]

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Quote:

You know what? I think you should try drawing some cool art for the new game! If what we have isn't cool enough yet, I'm sure you could definitely do better. Smile I think everyone would love to see you try your hand at it. Or, maybe you could contact ken-reed and ask him what sort of things you could do? We need to stay on task here though: making a new Stars! game. Once we're ready, I'm sure everyone would be happy to hear your ideas, K?

well that was simply a my opinion but about drawing new stuff. I'll see.

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Coyote wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 13:14

Neo the White wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 11:35 Quote: Biomorphic Hulls: By researching Biotechnology, the completely flexible Mini-Morph, Meta-Morph, and Ultra-Morph hulls are available to you. +1 Biotech level. IN Stars! the bio-tech is bio-tech only by word. why not actually have the bio armor and bio ships be able for self-repair. also why not have an semi-biological armour with better hitpoints than biological armour, cheaper than normal armour, self-repair and available only to one LRT? thematic inspiration: Babylon 5, the Vorlons. or Borg. Why not? If the game engine supports different healing rates for different hulls it'd be pretty cool. I thought about listing that before you mentioned it, and now that you did I will. The bio hulls can heal at, let's say, 5* normal rate. This is really not a huge issue but might be enough to make a difference in some situations. And of course we might be able to have advanced bio-armors.

Hey, make Nubians heal slower than smaller/older hulls and maybe you got a nice way to check them down a bit.

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I'v actually got some really cool ideas cooking in my head on how to implement a new economic model of self-replicating androids, ie, von Neumann machines, somewhat stolen from S!SNG. They'd have no PGR and no factories (but would have mines), instead they would build population in the production queue, and their economy would depend on a balance of population efficiency and population production cost per 100. Considr it an alternative to AR and the standard Industrial economic model. This could take a lot of game engine changes though, I think, and would have to come once other stuff gets ironed out. It would be a lot easier to implement than character objects, though!

Wow! I'd like to see it, indeed. Make their mines "virtual" much like AR "mines", and there's no need for that many engine changes. Now their hab hardiness, defenses, invading/defending factors and even en route dying/growing would need some consideration...

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m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 11:09] Coyote wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 13:14 Neo the White wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 11:35 Quote: Biomorphic Hulls: By researching Biotechnology, the completely flexible Mini-Morph, Meta-Morph, and Ultra-Morph hulls are available to you. +1 Biotech level. IN Stars! the bio-tech is bio-tech only by word. why not actually have the bio armor and bio ships be able for self-repair. also why not have an semi-biological armour with better hitpoints than biological armour, cheaper than normal armour, self-repair and available only to one LRT? thematic inspiration: Babylon 5, the Vorlons. or Borg. Why not? If the game engine supports different healing rates for different hulls it'd be pretty cool. I thought about listing that before you mentioned it, and now that you did I will. The bio hulls can heal at, let's say, 5* normal rate. This is really not a huge issue but might be enough to make a difference in some situations. And of course we might be able to have advanced bio-armors. Hey, make Nubians heal slower than smaller/older hulls and maybe you got a nice way to check them down a bit.

My thought would be to chop down their base armor. 5000dp seems a bit much for something roughly half the size of a battleship, high-tech or no.

Keep in mind the reason the Nubian was added into the tech tree in the first place. It's not what people would guess (opening up the late game to fleet-building despite scarcer minerals), but it does explain their name.

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Quote: a new economic model of self-replicating androids, ie, von Neumann machines Wow! I'd like to see it, indeed. Make their mines "virtual" much like AR "mines", and there's no need for that many engine changes. Now their hab hardiness, defenses, invading/defending factors and even en route dying/growing would need some consideration...

They've been added to the list.

They'd build mines and defenses, but they would BE factories. Hab ranges would work the same as any other race - mechanical components corrode and suffer in extreme conditions. And the model also works for biological cloner races that grow their colonists in tubes Huxley style, too. They look great on paper, anyhow!

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2007 14:43]

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Coyote wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 20:36

Keep in mind the reason the Nubian was added into the tech tree in the first place. It's not what people would guess (opening up the late game to fleet-building despite scarcer minerals), but it does explain their name.

I would very much like to know what that reason was.

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Interesting.

Quote:

Why not? If the game engine supports different healing rates for different hulls it'd be pretty cool. I thought about listing that before you mentioned it, and now that you did I will. The bio hulls can heal at, let's say, 5* normal rate. This is really not a huge issue but might be enough to make a difference in some situations. And of course we might be able to have advanced bio-armors.

cool

Quote:

I'v actually got some really cool ideas cooking in my head on how to implement a new economic model of self-replicating androids, ie, von Neumann machines, somewhat stolen from S!SNG. They'd have no PGR and no factories (but would have mines), instead they would build population in the production queue, and their economy would depend on a balance of population efficiency and population production cost per 100. Considr it an alternative to AR and the standard Industrial economic model. This could take a lot of game engine changes though, I think, and would have to come once other stuff gets ironed out. It would be a lot easier to implement than character objects, though!

also was thinking about this android race.

but what you think about the race of cyborgs as well.
something that would be like Borg in Star Trek.
It would have to be tough and able to provide great challenge.

It could assimilate other races pop into it's collective. the effect would be more realistic if this race has to, after having captured the people also have to transform the pop into cyborgs. That could be done on planets, starbases and few specific ships.
The rate of conversion would be enough good to turn about 250k pop into cyborgs in one year and and so in 4 years whole 1000k of pop would be converted.

The race would not have factories, instead each cyborg produces certain amounts of resources. The Idea is that everythign in this race is like factories and all pop only works. The time spent in alcoves to heal, repair and reload would not be noticable during 1 year turn in Stars!. Therefore this race would produce resources even if all of its pop would be in freighters. The resources could be used for research like normally but to build ships and other it would have to get enough drones into one place.

It could build even ships in deep space, given that it has minerals.

The resources provided by certain number of drone, let's say 10 or 1000 should be adjustable in race wizard.

basically the race is same as mechanical androids but it would have a low level PGR. I am not sure what it should be but it should be limited maybe around 12% with option to choose a bit in one or the other way with max of 14%. Why well see below.

It's growth would not be affected by planetary value, only limit the total number. Only on red planets the pop growth would be limited, but not die off.

well a strong race.

but the hardest part is to decide the resources of this race. I think it should make a good 4000 on every fully populated 100% planet. that means 1000k pop in any place equals 4000 resources.

and therefore to balance it the PGR must be something basic. around 12% IMO.

4000 resources per 1000k means 0,004 res. per 1 drone.

if it would have PGR completely free then it's top resources per 1000k pop should be limited to 3000 or maybe even 2500. it would be too strong a race with 19% PGR and 4000 res. .
Another option would be to have drones efficiency balance according to chosen PGR. like
if you choose 20% PGR then 1000k drones eff would be 2400 res.
if you choose it 12% you get 4000 res per same pop.
Each lower PGR adds 200 resources more.

now it would be to decide if this race can take it's PGR lower than 10%. I think it should be allowed to take it as low as 1% with 6200 res per 1000k pop then.

next it's terraforming should not adjust planets. but it would adjust its drones instead. that would mean that planets left by this race would be as bad or good as they were before.

the pop growth rate in freighters should not be lower than on planets. or if then only 20-30% lesser.

it should be able to house spacestations as well which can hold only 500k pop the most and smaller ones even lesser pop space.

it should have a special space station that can travel into space and reside in deep space.

the specs and pop space should be same with normal space station.

in deep space it should have mineral alchemy bonus.

just thoughts, be it interesting, useful or not.

[Updated on: Fri, 02 February 2007 13:57]

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I just read the list in page 1 and
ok you already included the replicants.(I think drones are much cooler name but that's just me)

[Updated on: Fri, 02 February 2007 13:55]

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Coyote wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 05:22

The story goes that back in the distant yesterday before the monster races, in the Innocent Age, the newbies proclaimed that they wanted a ship that could do everything. Their noise and clamor was exceeding great; and so the Jeffs acted. They bult a special ship hull for the newbies, and named it for them: the Nubian. But in their sadly finite wisdom, thinking it both safe and clever the Jeffs contrived to place it at the very lonely end of the tech tree, from whence it could taunt the newbies with its liscentious call of omnidirectional power; for in those days none could manage to research that far before the end of the game. And then one day the monster races rose up from the briny deep, and everything changed...

Wow! the Newbian?

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Coyote wrote on Sun, 28 January 2007 06:51

Synthetic (von Neumann / Brave New Worlder): You are either androids or replicants. You live on planets, but do not have a Population Growth Rate. Instead, you produce population artificially in your production queue. In the Economy screen, you get to select your 1/xxxx population reource efficiency (unlike industrial races, it's multiplied by hab% like AR) and the colonists constructed per 10 resources (let's say between 500 and 2500). You do not operate factories, but you do need mines and defenses.

Interesting! But

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A planet's population does not affect how many colonists it can produce, only the resources available.

Definitely dangerous, that. Noone (nothing) can have infinite pop on a planet, and everyone (everything) must feel the effects of overcrowding, though perhaps at higher levels than others.

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You also get a toggle to select if you are Androids (+2 Elect level) or Replicants (+2 Bio level) - apart from starting tech it doesn't have any economic effect but is kinda nice for roleplaying and can also affect which traits will work better for you.

Perhaps those could give a small discount on build cost of Elec or Bio items, too.

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Neo the White wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 18:46

what you think about the race of cyborgs as well. something that would be like Borg in Star Trek. It would have to be tough and able to provide great challenge.

The enemy everybody would love to tackle, indeed!

Quote:

It could assimilate other races pop into it's collective. the effect would be more realistic if this race has to, after having captured the people also have to transform the pop into cyborgs. That could be done on planets, starbases and few specific ships. The rate of conversion would be enough good to turn about 250k pop into cyborgs in one year and and so in 4 years whole 1000k of pop would be converted.

I guess they would need to uplift the captured pop to their own ships and then they could beam down the converted ones?

Quote:

The race would not have factories, instead each cyborg produces certain amounts of resources. The Idea is that everythign in this race is like factories and all pop only works. The time spent in alcoves to heal, repair and reload would not be noticable during 1 year turn in Stars!.

But perhaps every ship of theirs should need a small contingent onboard, so any destroyed or damaged would subtract overall resources...

Quote:

Therefore this race would produce resources even if all of its pop would be in freighters. The resources could be used for research like normally but to build ships and other it would have to get enough drones into one place. It could build even ships in deep space, given that it has minerals.

That would be too unlike Stars! I'm afraid. Let's say any actual resources need starlight to even exist, so planets are still necessary.

Quote:

The resources provided by certain number of drone, let's say 10 or 1000 should be adjustable in race wizard. basically the race is same as mechanical androids but it would have a low level PGR. I am not sure what it should be but it should be limited maybe around 12% with option to choose a bit in one or the other way with max of 14%. Why well see below. It's growth would not be affected by planetary value, only limit the total number. Only on red planets the pop growth would be limited, but not die off. well a strong race. but the hardest part is to decide the resources of this race. I think it should make a good 4000 on every fully populated 100% planet. that means 1000k pop in any place equals 4000 resources. and therefore to balance it the PGR must be something basic. around 12% IMO. 4000 resources per 1000k means 0,004 res. per 1 drone. if it would have PGR completely free then it's top resources per 1000k pop should be limited to 3000 or maybe even 2500. it would be too strong a race with 19% PGR and 4000 res. . Another option would be to have drones efficiency balance according to chosen PGR. like if you choose 20% PGR then 1000k drones eff would be 2400 res. if you choose it 12% you get 4000 res per same pop. Each lower PGR adds 200 resources more. now it would be to decide if this race can take it's PGR lower than 10%. I think it should be allowed to take it as low as 1% with 6200 res per 1000k pop then.

The balance should come thru the price tags of the various options, much as the current racewizard does for the rest of PRTs.

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next it's terraforming should not adjust planets. but it would adjust its drones instead. that would mean that planets left by this race would be as bad or good as they were before. the pop growth rate in freighters should not be lower than on planets. or if then only 20-30% lesser. it should be able to house spacestations as well which can hold only 500k pop the most and smaller ones even lesser pop space. it should have a special space station that can travel into space and reside in deep space. the specs and pop space should be same with normal space station. in deep space it should have mineral alchemy bonus. just thoughts, be it interesting, useful or not.

Again, that idea of DeepSpace is dangerous. What if instead they could have more than one starbase in orbit of the same planet? Though perhaps that would suit AR more.

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But perhaps every ship of theirs should need a small contingent onboard, so any destroyed or damaged would subtract overall resources...

that's good idea.

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That would be too unlike Stars! I'm afraid. Confused Let's say any actual resources need starlight to even exist, so planets are still necessary. Whip

in reality we can have free energy.
http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm

Solar power and liquid fuel... but these energy sources are not even comparable to nuclear power. And that can last long time anywhere and can be made even from non-radiative matter. well our scientists still can't
besides energy can be generated like in Warp Cores, as seen in Star Trek. oh almost forgot the Deep Space 9

even our technology could make energy in deep space through use of magnets.

The idea of Deep Space would make this race a real devil.
but it should be balanced to provide challenge and help with survival not so much as with greater economy.

with zero cost, thanks to StarEd, the space could be made thick of space stations, but that's not reasonable nor possible in normal games.
well it was anyway just an idea.

[Updated on: Fri, 02 February 2007 14:50]

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Neo the White wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 20:49

in reality we can have free energy. http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm

What a load of pseudoscience.

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Solar power and liquid fuel... but these energy sources are not even comparable to nuclear power. And that can last long time anywhere and can be made even from non-radiative matter. well our scientists still can't

Still not enough for the kind of "industry" these Borg have. A significant fraction of the total output of a star is needed.

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besides energy can be generated like in Warp Cores, as seen in Star Trek.

And those need to be refueled, too.

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oh almost forgot the Deep Space 9

Conveniently located near a planet. QED.

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The idea of Deep Space would make this race a real devil. but it should be balanced to provide challenge and help with survival not so much as with greater economy.

Exactly my point.

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