[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 04:56] by Moderator

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mazda wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 00:11

gible wrote on Sat, 13 January 2007 03:36 AR viral bombing happens between fleet battles and meeting the MT. If you are also using 'regular' bombs on the same planet then the viral bombing does not occur The presense and activity of other players bombers does not have this affect. So if the bombers don't clear it then it won't get colonised ? That's probably worth knowing, for an AR.

The really significant part here, is that AR races can't use combinations of conventional bombers and coloniser-bombers to clear worlds quickly. If they want the colonisers to bomb, the conventional bombers actually have to leave orbit

[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 05:04] by Moderator

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Why so much about that viral bombing?
AR colonizer bombers are actually not so cost-effective, especially in ironium and germanium terms. Somehow it feels better to use traditional bombers. The colonizers have some qualities but lets see...
Preserve installations.
Have better fuel.
Have lighter weight.
48 colonizers can have LF of cargo space.
Pop is not dying when travelling in quantities of 22kT.

But why should AR care about installations; its not that expensive to have SFX and LF with; the minibombers also dont die too much when overgating and for pop not dying ... who wants to MM split/merge them colonizers each turn to have that tiny effect?

[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 04:52]

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Unless you're a really low growth AR you probably wouldn't worry about losing colonists transported in an LF, so you could just build the LF with some mini bombers. Of course, if you're low growth you might be able to afford the more expensive colonizers and split them up whenever they move. Especially since they can't use the installations, I think it would generally be better for an AR to stay away from the colonizers for anything but colonizing, particularly once they have decent bombs.

Kotk: I know that for a lot of Stars! players English is their second language, so this is just a little constructive criticism.

Quote:

Why so lot about that viral bombing?

and

Quote:

the minibombers also dont die too lot when overgating

"Lot" should actually be "much," so it would be "Why so much about that viral bombing" and "the minibombers also don't die too much when overgating." I already know from all the posts I've seen from you that you're quite intelligent, so this is mainly just to help you improve a little bit in terms of English.


Also, this discussion got me thinking about smart bombs and viral bombing, so I started a new thread on that here.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 January 2007 17:04]

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[Updated on: Wed, 17 January 2007 18:56]

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Iconian wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 23:47

Kotk: I know that for a lot of Stars! players English is their second language, so this is just a little constructive criticism.

For me English is unfortunatelly 4th language i learned to understand, thanks for all help, ... i continue trying.

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Kotk wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 01:51

For me English is unfortunatelly 4th language i learned to understand, thanks for all help, ... i continue trying.

I salute you.

I've made some half-hearted attempts on my own to pick up Japanese but since I'm not using it very often at all and don't know anyone to converse with it just doesn't stick. Someday I'll need to take classes.

It amazes me that so many people on the Internet fail at using their first language.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 05:03]

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BTW, i double tested...
1 Black cat minibomber + 100 colony ships merged do kill 200 000 pop defenseless colony clean with one turn like they should.
Same fleet against 85% defenses is killing 30 100 colonists (200 600 * 15%) like it should.

Possible cases are:
1) Something is wrong with gibles report that the colony ship bombing is somehow blocked by ordinary bombers.

2) I understood the whole issue wrong again.

[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 05:04] by Moderator

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Hi!

Kotk wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 18:52

BTW, i double tested. ... 1) Something is wrong with gibles report that the colony ship bombing is somehow blocked by ordinary bombers.

That info was new to me, so I too tested it. The funny thing is I CONFIRMED his findings, on two different computers.

On both comp's I opened BattleSim, loaded AR race #1, produced 10 minbombers with HaB, 240 colonizers and 10 FFs, mergerd ships and attacked a neighbour, that had 100 neutron defenses. In all cases where my bombers were in orbit, they destroyed 11700 pop. If there were only colonizers, they killed 10000 pop. With bombers and colonizers there were 11700 killed.

IMO it is a problem with game versions. I actually can't tell what exact game version I'm running: 2.7jRC3 or RC4, so this might be the issue.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 05:04] by Moderator

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[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 05:03] by Moderator

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Hi!

iztok wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 22:53

IMO it is a problem with game versions.

I just downloaded the 2.6jRC4 form AH and did the test. Same result - colonizers don't "bomb" if regular bombers are present.

BTW those messages probably deserve to be split in another topic.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 05:03] by Moderator

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iztok wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 22:53

Hi! Kotk wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 18:52 BTW, i double tested. ... 1) Something is wrong with gibles report that the colony ship bombing is somehow blocked by ordinary bombers. That info was new to me, so I too tested it. The funny thing is I CONFIRMED his findings, on two different computers.

Maybe also the specific regular bomb matters? Kotk tested with Black cat, Iztok tested with HaB ...

mch

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Micha wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 12:08

Maybe also the specific regular bomb matters? Kotk tested with Black cat, Iztok tested with HaB ...

Maybe the problem is yep in the math that was done when getting expectations?

20 HAB-s give:
60% kill, 0 minimum kill, 40 facilities
100 OCM-s give:
0% kill, 200 000 minimum kill, 0 facilities

So as merged they should work as:
60% kill, 200 000 minimum kill, 40 facilities

Always the bombing occurs with whatever is bigger, minimum kill or percentage kill.
So if 60% of bombed planets pop is bigger than 200 000 then the minimum kill of colony ships does not apply and vice versa?

I used few black cats so %kill was smaller than minimum kill and since black cats have minimum kill of their own i observed that it added to minimum kill of OCM-s.

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Hi!

mazda wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 11:41

It strongly suggested that only the larger of the two figures was being used.

Seems you're right! I tested that by sending just one minibomber with 240 colonizers and the result was 10000 dead and 2 instalations destroyed.

BR, Iztok

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iztok wrote on Sat, 20 January 2007 06:34

Seems you're right! I tested that by sending just one minibomber with 240 colonizers and the result was 10000 dead and 2 instalations destroyed.

Can you run this again with 0 defences?
I'd have expected 240 * 2000 + 1 * 300 = 480300 killed.

...mostly I want to see the extra 300 minimum kills to confirm they add together.

[Updated on: Sun, 21 January 2007 01:29]

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gible wrote on Sun, 21 January 2007 08:05

Can you run this again with 0 defences? I'd have expected 240 * 2000 + 1 * 300 = 480300 killed.

HAB has 0 minimum kill like LBU bombs have 0 minimum kill. I mean that 300 there does not apply to HAB.

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Hi!

gible wrote on Sun, 21 January 2007 07:05

Can you run this again with 0 defences? I'd have expected 240 * 2000 + 1 * 300 = 480300 killed. ...mostly I want to see the extra 300 minimum kills to confirm they add together.

I did a new testbed without defenses. Took me 15 minutes. 100 colonizers and one minibomber with two M-70 bombs. Result:
- 200600 killed and 12 installatons destroyed. Exactly as you suspected.

It seems that if there are AR viral "bombers" besides regular bombers in orbit, the bombing procedure goes as following:
- calculate damage to population by bombs.
- calculate damage to pop by viral bombing.
- if the biggest damage is from viral bombing add to it the "minimum kill" from regular bombs.
- apply biggest damage.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Tue, 23 January 2007 02:39]

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