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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Sat, 24 February 2007 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
Carn wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 15:29

what are sensible limitations?

The amount of planets I'd expect to be "mine" in a particular game.

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...

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Sun, 25 February 2007 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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I still think points to min conc are not usefull enough for 3i AR... Thanks to sqrt formulas the 3i AR will generate more minerals than a 2i/1i AR race in early game, thanks to being spread over so many colonies. Coloniser-boosters server very nicely in multiple roles - as early boosters for those colonisers, for getting extra pop exported out early (and minimising pop loss) and also for returning minerals from the colonies to the producer(s). I find they return more minerals than they cost.

I think if you want to put points to anything, they will sit happiest against surface minerals, but even those I would just use 'spare' points rather than trying to find points anywhere.

Try it Smile It works just fine for me Smile As I mentioned before, even a bad iron draw matters very little to this race as your mine earnings are distributed over so many worlds so quickly, so the concs on the HW itself become very rapidly insignificant. The two starting miners for ARM are certainly quite nice though, and having the midget hull is nice for when you do eventually need miners (I wanted extra minerals for larger warfleets around 2425 in the tests I did.)

But, as Iztok says, 6% 3i AR is somewhat broken by the 6% part... 12500 is pretty close to being a hard limit imposed by PGR even unopposed. I don't think 12500@2450 under perfect conditions is performance worthy of keeping a race under consideration for a real game. Smile

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Mon, 26 February 2007 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
Dogthinkers wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 23:52

6% 3i AR is somewhat broken by the 6% part... 12500 is pretty close to being a hard limit imposed by PGR even unopposed.

Yeah, after that race runs off the space to spread, it became stuck with 6% growth and diminishing returns from sqrt formula of that small amount of new pop. A planet colonized by 2200 pop needs half an age to grow so much pop the Space Station is needed, and another 40 years before they need something better. Crying or Very Sad

BR, Iztok



[Updated on: Mon, 26 February 2007 01:45]

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Sat, 19 July 2008 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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I'm currently testbedding the following:

The Culture

AR
IFE, ARM, NAS, RS
3i, 6%
1/8
NCP cheap W normal LB expensive
Surface mins (are min concs a better bet?)

Basically the idea is to get the TGFS fast to keep the expansion rolling (I got it at 2412). I don't really see any way to get W cheap and hence make it viable midgame though. Any ideas? Because you need N cheap (duh, it's a 3i AR FFS), C cheap for robo-maxi-miner before you hit I crunch, P cheap to get the TGFS fast. And the IFE is for the Fuel Miser to tide you over while researching prop, so can't really drop that either. ARM should be obvious.

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Sat, 19 July 2008 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
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Do you really need IFE?

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Sun, 20 July 2008 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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Think so, without it you have a hell of a time getting out enough colonisers to get the TGFS so early, then you hit mineral crunch before you have the Robo-Maxi-Miner which screws you over more... the whole point of the race is to optimise everything so you can avoid most of the iron crunch (funnily enough germ actually crunches first, but only just, because you're using a germ-hungry engine, but still...) because otherwise you're stranded for 10 years or more while you dig your way out of an Iron crunch. That's what really cripples 3i ARs, I'm still testbedding and it looks like it might get 16k+ by 2450, quite good. But yes, without IFE you could get W cheap, which would help a lot outside of a testbed.

Update: 2680 resources in 2420, research 12-0-9-7-4-0 I think. Quite decent huh?


[Updated on: Sun, 20 July 2008 05:22]

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Sun, 20 July 2008 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
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magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 20 July 2008 14:23

Think so, without it you have a hell of a time getting out enough colonisers to get the TGFS so early, then you hit mineral crunch before you have the Robo-Maxi-Miner which screws you over more... the whole point of the race is to optimise everything so you can avoid most of the iron crunch (funnily enough germ actually crunches first, but only just, because you're using a germ-hungry engine, but still...) because otherwise you're stranded for 10 years or more while you dig your way out of an Iron crunch. That's what really cripples 3i ARs, I'm still testbedding and it looks like it might get 16k+ by 2450, quite good. But yes, without IFE you could get W cheap, which would help a lot outside of a testbed.

Update: 2680 resources in 2420, research 12-0-9-7-4-0 I think. Quite decent huh?


I copied your race but made prop exp, el normal and w cheap. 2420: 11-8-3-9-4-0 with W10 in 1 turn. Only 2570 res - mainly the -1 on En I'm thinking. Perhaps the crappy planet draw but that's me making lame excuses. Tried a variant with prop and el expensive with ISB and stopped at EL2. 11-10-2-9-2-0 on 2500 res, with prop3 next turn and then some. Got higher en earlier - makes quite a difference. Had a good planet draw too, so that'll make my lame excuse up there, well, lame. Smile Trying to hold about 40 planets was also pretty lame.

While the tech was there for collie CCs the mins and production capacity make it interesting ... with the ISB variant, most planets had about 74~78 res, so FM collie CCs with some MJs and Bears is about 230 res ... that's about 40 Mvmt 1.75 Collie CCs around 2425 if you can find the minerals ... and if you can last that long ... Wink

I see what you mean by the colonising with less than 2.2k. I found 1.5K was easy maths ... I'll have to retest one day focusing on res instead of war tech one day Smile
...

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Mon, 21 July 2008 05:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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How many remote miners had you built by 2420? I would have got 2800+ at 2420 had I not stopped Pinta production for 3 years to build 2 remote miner ships w/ Robo-Maxis. And I'm finding that 2200 per ship is doable, you just have to do pickups from other planets to supply the pop, once a planet gets over 4500 I start stripping it.

Edit: 2430 results: 5.2k, 15-0-9-8-4-0 (the 8 for construction came from artifacts). 60 planets.


[Updated on: Mon, 21 July 2008 07:58]

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Mon, 21 July 2008 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
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magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 21 July 2008 19:28

How many remote miners had you built by 2420? I would have got 2800+ at 2420 had I not stopped Pinta production for 3 years to build 2 remote miner ships w/ Robo-Maxis. And I'm finding that 2200 per ship is doable, you just have to do pickups from other planets to supply the pop, once a planet gets over 4500 I start stripping it.

Edit: 2430 results: 5.2k, 15-0-9-8-4-0 (the 8 for construction came from artifacts). 60 planets.

I'm too lazy to strip pop ... in fact, the turn I couldn't build 2 pintas I moved some pop to a second world which ended up having about 13K pop by 2420. Very lazy. Very Happy Plus I was more interested in the war tech that was achievable. I still think ISB is a viable choice if you were crazy enough to take this race into a game Smile I built 2 small freighters around turn 2 and 2 remote miners behind pintas. Germ dropped to about 17kT the turn before the second remote miner came out. I had No Random Events checked.

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Re: so if you go 1/25 instead of 1/10 Mon, 21 July 2008 19:31 Go to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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I can't exactly help the fact that I'm crap, what did I do wrong? How did you get better results? Surprised I put on B:MM, AccBBS, and that's it I think. NRE hinders economic development slightly due to artifacts.

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