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Merging minefields Thu, 21 September 2006 16:34 Go to next message
skandal is currently offline skandal

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 25
Registered: August 2003
Location: Poland
Hello,

I face this problem every time playing SD and trying lay many minefields simultaneously on a small area. How to avoid merging these minefields?
Maybe somebody know a formula determinig it (when 2+ minefields are going to merge and where center of new minefield will be?) or a simple way to manage this occurance?

TIA & regards

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Re: Merging minefields Thu, 21 September 2006 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005
I'm pretty sure they merge if the center of one is inside the other: I could be wrong though.

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Re: Merging minefields Thu, 21 September 2006 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA
skandal wrote on Thu, 21 September 2006 15:34

Hello,

I face this problem every time playing SD and trying lay many minefields simultaneously on a small area. How to avoid merging these minefields?
Maybe somebody know a formula determinig it (when 2+ minefields are going to merge and where center of new minefield will be?) or a simple way to manage this occurance?

TIA & regards


Keep all ships at least 1 ly + the radius of the begining minefield apart. So, you have 4 mine dispenser 40's on a SD minelayer hull. That lays 160 * 2 = 320 mines per year. 320 mines in the field = 18 ly radius (square root of mines in the field = radius of field). Keeping your minelayers 19+ ly apart will give you seperate minefields. Those minefields will be centered at each ship location.

That help?
-Matt



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Merging minefields Thu, 21 September 2006 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ashlyn is currently offline Ashlyn

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 833
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pueblo CO USA

sounds easy... but how come i always have so much trouble??? Laughing

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Re: Merging minefields Fri, 22 September 2006 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tgellan is currently offline tgellan

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 75
Registered: May 2006
Location: Luxembourg
The problem arises at the moment you want to stock up the fields again. At that moment the fields will be of larger size than these 18ly. And they will merge as soon as the center of one minefield is inside another minefield of same minetype. The center of the new minefield is the gravitycenter of the two merging fields. This means, if both fields are of the same size, the new center is in the middle of the two old centers. Or on different sizes, the center is more toward the larger field.

So, here is how I handle minefields:

Moving minefields:
Just put the layer inside the minefield offset from the center into the direction you want the field to move. Speed of moving depends on mines layed compared to mines already in the field and the distance between the new mines and the center of the field. So, optimum is near the border of the field. This works best for small fields, or fields with high decay. Remember exploding fields can be considered having a high saturation, same for swept fields Wink
Fields centered near planets tend to snap to the planets, I haven't yet figured out why...

Building a minebelt of overlapping, nonmerging fields:
Put the annual minelaying capacity into StarsCalculator, it tells you then the staturation size of the field, take half of that (radius) and add at least 1. This is the minimun distance of two adjacent fields which should not merge! For safety you may put them a bit farther out...

It becomes more tricky, if you use one (fleet of) layer(s) to refill fields periodically... You need to know the max size of your fields then, if you do, follow the upper method again. I never cared to get the exact formula for the size of these fields, in general I just testbed them with a specific minelayer design and refill intervall...

Sidenote:
Although this is the rule, I have already seen minefields of the same type (and same owner) being completely envelopped one by the other, without merging. But at that time I still used the b-patch, so it could be fixed in j-patch.

Hope this
...

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Re: Merging minefields Fri, 22 September 2006 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
tgellan wrote on Fri, 22 September 2006 05:22

The problem arises at the moment you want to stock up the fields again. At that moment the fields will be of larger size than these 18ly. And they will merge as soon as the center of one minefield is inside another minefield of same minetype. The center of the new minefield is the gravitycenter of the two merging fields. This means, if both fields are of the same size, the new center is in the middle of the two old centers. Or on different sizes, the center is more toward the larger field.


I'm confident that this is not correct, assuming I'm reading it correctly. Once a MF exists you can expand it without it ever merging with another MF. It is SOP to have many MFs whose centers overlap as this makes crash sweeping much more difficult and greatly reduces the impact of beam sweeping.

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Re: Merging minefields Fri, 22 September 2006 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
I am also confident that minefields do not merge. Once you have minefield you cannot merge it to other minefield. Nod

However you can lay into minefield without being in center of it and that is where such silly problems come. Confused

Layers lay in order of their fleet #. If first of them has laid minefield in the way that second layer sits in it you are in trouble (if you did not plan it like that) because second lays into same minefield. Rolling Eyes

Then the merged minefield may be already so big that third layer is laying also into it and so on. Wink Very Happy Cool

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Re: Merging minefields Fri, 22 September 2006 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skandal is currently offline skandal

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 25
Registered: August 2003
Location: Poland
Thx all. You're most helpful. Smile

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Re: Merging minefields Sun, 24 September 2006 17:22 Go to previous message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
My guess is that people think they merge due to losing a minefield inside another.

Consider the 2 small minefields laid next to each other (18ly) as described above. After a couple of years you return to the centre of both to lay again.

First minelayer lays mines (makes field bigger), second minelayer is now in 2 fields, it lays and makes the first field even bigger.
A few turns later you are checking your minefields and hey - there is one big one where there should have been 2 (the second smaller one is by now tiny or non existant), so you assume they merged.

It is easy to lay overlapping fields, the problems start when the place you lay is in more than one field as you lose control over which field the mines are added to.


[Updated on: Sun, 24 September 2006 17:23]




Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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