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Re: Random Ideas Fri, 01 September 2006 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 19:47

Then you select a planet and Queue it (ala Genesis Device) or tick a checkbox in the Research Pane (ala Generalized Research) and "point" it to your pet WH. Deal


The idea was for a ship mounted item, the suggestion was to put it in a mining robot slot. Ships can be shot down, and mining ships have poor defenses.

One setup for it I would find fun is this:

WH Stabilizer fixes that WH endpoint as long as it is there with "mining" orders. The other endpoint is unaffected (to keep both endpoints in place would require a ship with a WH Stabilizer at both ends).

When a WH Stabilizer stops stabilizing a WH endpoint, then the WH destabilizes two stages PLUS whatever natural destabilization would have occurred during the time the WH was stabilized, and if the new stage is one where an endpoint jump is possible, then an endpoint jump is certain. This means that it can also be used to destabilize a WH endpoint, the user just has to "stabilize" the endpoint one year, then leave the WH Stabilizer off the next. IIRC about WH stages, that means that to remove a "Rock solid" WH would require four years.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Random Ideas Wed, 13 September 2006 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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I've got an idea. Reduce capital missiles to range 5 maximum and let torpedoes go to range 6. That way there's a more interesting interaction between them - torpedoes having weak firepower but both longer range and lower weight...

Another thing I would like to try is re-introducing area effect torpedo type weapons as in early Stars! versions. Or, as per my idea in my still uncontsructed mod, a range 4 beam-like weapon class called Electromagnetic Gun (var. Railgun, Gauss Cannon, Wave-Motion Gun, etc...) that's heavier and more expensive than a typical beam weapon but can interact interestingly with cap missiles and conventional beams. With the power of having a brand new ruleset, though, you could give them fun effects, such as bypassing shields completely and dealing damage directly to armor (take that, RS!)... Effect: Equipped armor would have more effect than simply slowing your ships down. RS would be a riskier move. Might make Crobies overly strong.

One more thing that'd be cool - I think this idea originally came up in discussions of Supernova - is to make point-defense beams, a la gatlings, that have a chance of destroying torpedoes that enter their weapon range (not necessarily having to be targeted at the equipped ship). This would allow the use of a "destroyer screen" to protect your capital ships.

Oh, and before I forget, make Depleted Neutronium stong enough that a full slot can cloak a SS BB to 98% Crazy


[Updated on: Wed, 13 September 2006 19:21]

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 14 September 2006 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Thu, 14 September 2006 01:16

make point-defense beams, a la gatlings, that have a chance of destroying torpedoes that enter their weapon range (not necessarily having to be targeted at the equipped ship). This would allow the use of a "destroyer screen" to protect your capital ships.


Could be nice. Cool I'd even go as far as require those for any ship that wants to shoot down scouts/frigates. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 14 September 2006 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Coyote wrote on Thu, 14 September 2006 02:16

I've got an idea. Reduce capital missiles to range 5 maximum and let torpedoes go to range 6. That way there's a more interesting interaction between them - torpedoes having weak firepower but both longer range and lower weight...

...and bigger accuracy. Such modding can be done without coding, item range and what not can be modded.
Quote:

Another thing I would like to try is re-introducing area effect torpedo type weapons as in early Stars! versions. Or, as per my idea in my still uncontsructed mod, a range 4 beam-like weapon class called Electromagnetic Gun (var. Railgun, Gauss Cannon, Wave-Motion Gun, etc...) that's heavier and more expensive than a typical beam weapon but can interact interestingly with cap missiles and conventional beams.

Area effect missile takes some additional coding. Probably not so simple to make it to look convincing at VCR. Beams range can be altered without coding but there are 3 types of beams, ordinary, gatling or sapper.
Quote:

With the power of having a brand new ruleset, though, you could give them fun effects, such as bypassing shields completely and dealing damage directly to armor (take that, RS!)... Effect: Equipped armor would have more effect than simply slowing your ships down. RS would be a riskier move. Might make Crobies overly strong.

And sappers overly pointless. Such weapon type takes also coding. Wink
Quote:

One more thing that'd be cool - I think this idea originally came up in discussions of Supernova - is to make point-defense beams, a la gatlings, that have a chance of destroying torpedoes that enter their weapon range (not necessarily having to be targeted at the equipped ship). This would allow the use of a "destroyer screen" to protect your capital ships.
It is possible to add base jamming to some hulls and jammer component to beams is possible (or even bomb component like to multi contained munition). However to let a token to jam for other tokens takes whole new feature of item (or hull) or new weapon type and effect takes coding.
Quote:

Oh, and before I forget, make Depleted Neutronium stong enough that a full slot can cloak a SS BB to 98% Crazy
Thats also possible without coding.

Heh... what we got to do is to code already existing properties and effects (no fancy new ones) so we can advance it from pre-alfa stage. What i am already worried about is that xml-based battle report will probably take quite lot of room. Wink


[Updated on: Thu, 14 September 2006 12:17]

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 19 September 2006 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tgellan is currently offline tgellan

 
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Hi,

Here's another one:

Allow an option for deleting/marking outdated scanner reports of planets. In that way one could immediately see spots in the galaxy that need the scanner informations to be renewed...

Just my 5 cents

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Re: Random Ideas Wed, 20 September 2006 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
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tgellan wrote on Tue, 19 September 2006 14:35


Allow an option for deleting/marking outdated scanner reports of planets. In that way one could immediately see spots in the galaxy that need the scanner informations to be renewed...



Or just a map mode that colours the planets according to the age of their reports. Bright green = current, dark red = last scanned over x turns ago, fading between the two. I put together a utility that did this based on planet report data a while back and it was quite useful, but I've since lost it.

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Re: Random Ideas Sat, 30 September 2006 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Kotk wrote on Thu, 14 September 2006 08:36


Area effect missile takes some additional coding. Probably not so simple to make it to look convincing at VCR.



It worked fine when it was implemented in the older versions of Stars! - but instead of balancing these weapons they were removed outright. Sad. More options generally make for more fun.

Quote:


Beams range can be altered without coding but there are 3 types of beams, ordinary, gatling or sapper.
Quote:

With the power of having a brand new ruleset, though, you could give them fun effects, such as bypassing shields completely and dealing damage directly to armor (take that, RS!)... Effect: Equipped armor would have more effect than simply slowing your ships down. RS would be a riskier move. Might make Crobies overly strong.

And sappers overly pointless. Such weapon type takes also coding. Wink



Sapper + capital missile combo is powerful. As long as capital missiles are around, sappers will be too. Against the capital missile/sapper combo, simplistically speaking each point of shield DP is worth 4 points of armor DP. When your shields give out, you die, and throwing on additional armor is a waste of iron and resources and slows your ships down besides. Armor is of marginal worth at best even against a pure beam fleet because it slows your ships down and leaves them vulnerable to range advantages.


I would like to see armor become something that can actually confer an advantage in proportion to its cost and mobility drawbacks. The EM gun dealing damage directly to armor and bypassing shields would add one more fulcrum to the tactical balance. The other option is to improve armor.


Even disregarding all that, I still would like to see an intermediate-range weapon class.

Quote:

It is possible to add base jamming to some hulls and jammer component to beams is possible (or even bomb component like to multi contained munition). However to let a token to jam for other tokens takes whole new feature of item (or hull) or new weapon type and effect takes coding.


Yes, but it would add fun behavior. And it should not function just like jamming - there should be an upper limit to how many torpedoes can be intercepted, say, each round the stack can only intercept as many torpedoes as there are PDW's in the stack. The PDW's would intercept an absolute percentage of incoming missiles before jamming is calculated, improved by any battle computers on the hull. The effect could have a range of either 0 or 1 square. Now if these are on lighter hulls than the capital ships, they can follow the capital ships around and give them a PDW screen - but this may require a new battle order behavior (Provide Cover?) Also, if your enemy is gonna attack your starbase (with Attack Starbase orders) you can gate in some PDW destroyers that'll sit there and intercept incoming missiles while your starbase fires back.
This would make chaff obsolete.

Speaking of battle behavior - we should be able to set different battle orders for each ship class in a fleet. Also, "target capital ships" and "target escort ships" options... Targeting capital ships is obviously useful, but targeting esort ships would have you destroy the PDW screen before attacking the capital ships. (I'm assuming it would be rather difficult to achieve a capital ship rating with PDWs.)



[Updated on: Sat, 30 September 2006 19:08]

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 01 October 2006 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Coyote wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 02:02

It worked fine when it was implemented in the older versions of Stars! - but instead of balancing these weapons they were removed outright. Sad. More options generally make for more fun.

Generally you are right ... different abilities are fun. OTOH disabling buggy/weak features is better than leaving them in. As for VCR ... VCR has always looked quite pathetic for interstellar battle and area effect was strange and most odd cheat was that self detonate battle plan.
Quote:

Armor is of marginal worth at best even against a pure beam fleet because it slows your ships down and leaves them vulnerable to range advantages.

Correct. Hull armor (beside that on orbitals) is good and cheap and sufficent ... so armor components are pointless elsewhere but on orbitals.
Lets take construction 3:
crobmium = 75dp in 56kT for 6/0/0/13
destroyer = 200dp in 30kT for 15/3/5/35 (8 slots, 280 fuel)
So 3 slabs of crobmium only double DD hulls armor but also double ships cost and raise its weight 7 times. Confused I actually dont see how proposed EM gun improves that disbalance (between inbuilt armor and armor components) and makes me put crobmium onto DD? I anyway better build 2 armorless DDs. Wink
Quote:

This would make chaff obsolete.

Yes, yes. However the whole set: PDW components, PDW tokens + new battle plans & orders + battle plan per each token in fleet ... it all seems lot more work first to implement and later to use compared to chaff. Rolling Eyes Chaff has been so easy to implement that it is considered allowed cheat and not a feature. Nod Sure all can be added one day. Nod


[Updated on: Sun, 01 October 2006 12:20]

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 01 October 2006 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Yeah. Armor needs to drop in cost/DP quite a bit. Even if the cost per dp is better than for shields, it's still heavy.

Hull Notes (from things I've tried in Star Ed)

Also, why bother putting shield/armor slots on freighter hulls? If you want a freighter that can take mine hits, cut the galleon down to three engines and use that.

Reduce the germanium cost of med freighter and possibly boost its cargo/fuel capacity. Reduce cargo capacity of privateer to 50kt and decrease Iron cost - it can fill the role of a utility ship or alternative warship.

Privateer

---------[_______]
---------[gen-p_1]----[_shield]
---------[_______]----[elect__]
[________][//////////][mech_1_]
[engine_1][cargo 50kt]--------
[________][//////////][armor__]
---------[_______]----[scanner]
---------[gen-p_1]----[el_mc 1]
---------[_______]

Turn the Destroyer's Armor 2 slot into a Shield/Armor 2. Maybe switch the Destroyer and Frigate tech levels.

The result of these changes would affect the feel of the early warfare - if DD/FF techs are reversed, you'd start out having to choose between the quick agile frigate or the tough and flexible but heavy privateer or wait for the destroyer.
The privateer could also take over the frigate's utility role, ie, as minelayer, minesweeper, etc. The frigate would still make a better fast scanning ship though. And freighters would actually be freighters!


[Updated on: Sun, 01 October 2006 15:13]

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 01 October 2006 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Kotk wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 08:59


Yes, yes. However the whole set: PDW components, PDW tokens + new battle plans & orders + battle plan per each token in fleet ... it all seems lot more work first to implement and later to use compared to chaff. Rolling Eyes Chaff has been so easy to implement that it is considered allowed cheat and not a feature. Nod Sure all can be added one day. Nod


Yes - but my plan would put AR on an equal footing with everyone else. Dueling Chaff doesn't.

Isn't "fixing AR" one of the top priorities of game balance discussions? A seemingly unrelated tactic solves the AR weakness problem. And AR PRT itself doesn't have to be bothered with at all. It's a solution that affects everyone in the same way yet plugs a sizeable hole.
Bounce


[Updated on: Sun, 01 October 2006 15:26]

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 01 October 2006 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Coyote wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 22:05

Yeah. Armor needs to drop in cost/DP quite a bit.

I think slightly reducing armor components cost, slightly improving their dp and slightly reducing hulls dp and slightly increasing their cost (with slightly i mean 5%-15%) would actually sum up as Lot More Attractive Armor Components. Laughing Weight of armor is ridiculous so it needs to be reduced very dramatically ... say 75%. Can make all hulls 30% heavier and armor components "only" 70% lighter ... but that improves IT-s somewhat.
Quote:

Hull Notes (from things I've tried in Star Ed)

Yes... all it is just configuring, not coding ... that all brings into mind ... who will write FreeStars ED? Rolling Eyes
Coyote wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 22:20

Yes - but my plan would put AR on an equal footing with everyone else. Dueling Chaff doesn't.

Your plan involves so lot of new stuff that new balance (between different weapons/strategies and tactics) is hard to imagine behind it all. Wink I am unsure if it fixes any AR troubles. Rolling Eyes Probably makes it harder to pluck that IT-s gate out. Confused

AR fights quite OK like it is. While Deathstar is "easy" to take out it is also easy to build back as AR ... so there is balance. Nod As contrast LBU-ed planet of some factory race is out of business for him for decade or two. Noone will throw away a fleet that takes out deathstar with one shot to see the deathstar built back in 3-4 years from salvo of that fleet. Wink

AR real weaknesses are that it cant pop drop nor can build much fleet up to 2460 meanwhile it feels -F so wants lot of planets. Toof

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 01 October 2006 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Maybe it's an idea better suited for a different game. I don't know. It could be fun to experiment with sometime.




One thing that could be nice is to make the battleboard significantly bigger - say, 24x24? With a larger battleboard, the time needed to escape should increase as well.


Another thing is to make the maximum number of designs for each player adjustable as a game option. Let's say, you can pick between 10, 16, 24, or 32 designs allowed. Either that or have it tied to universe size.
Or, have it a variable in race design! If you can live with 10 designs, you get points - if you want a full 32, be prepared to pay. Deal


[Updated on: Sun, 01 October 2006 21:16]

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 01 October 2006 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Kotk wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 18:03



AR real weaknesses are that it cant pop drop nor can build much fleet up to 2460 meanwhile it feels -F so wants lot of planets. Toof



They should start with more midget miners, say, 12. That would help their speed.


[Updated on: Sun, 01 October 2006 21:17]

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 02 October 2006 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
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imo AR needs a weakness. Mineral fountain is very powerful late game.

AR is stronger in non Acc-BBS games

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 02 October 2006 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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multilis wrote on Mon, 02 October 2006 18:11

imo AR needs a weakness. Mineral fountain is very powerful late game.

AR is stronger in non Acc-BBS games

And HE needs its weakness.
HE is stronger in smaller games. Wink

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 03 October 2006 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Kotk wrote on Mon, 02 October 2006 12:53

multilis wrote on Mon, 02 October 2006 18:11

imo AR needs a weakness. Mineral fountain is very powerful late game.

AR is stronger in non Acc-BBS games

And HE needs its weakness.
HE is stronger in smaller games. Wink



Mineral fountain could be nerfed by using a diminishing returns formula for remote mining - say, a logarithmic progression instead of linear, so each additional mining bot per planet is slightly less useful.

On a side note, perhaps ARM should slow down mineral depletion from remote mining. That would be nice.

HE's weaknesses are more than just lack of stargates - combine that with slow shipbuilding per planet and it takes them a long time to get fleets to the front. Also, their planets are really vulnerable to popdrop before the defenses are up. I've noticed that it's difficult to make a HE with a high growth rate that can manage to export colonists by 30% capacity. Higher growth rates end up being a waste of points and in contradiction to the name they simply can't expand very quickly, compared to, say, IS. Smile



[Updated on: Tue, 03 October 2006 12:41]

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 11 December 2006 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
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something I just wanted... a list of what each planet is contributing to research

...an excess resources column in the planet listy thing would do it nicely Smile

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 21 August 2011 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TRSMMaiden

 
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Not sure if this has been suggested previously or not and just something I like the sound of but maybe others would not. Also I dont know how easy or difficult it would be to implement. There may be reasons why it would not work that I have not thought about.

I like the idea of being able to take over an enemy ship instead of destroy it. I have no idea about the nitty gritty / details etc I am not a computer wiz only a general idea say for example you win a battle and the other fleet has some unique ships (maybe a CA's terraforming ships or well whatever it might be) some kind of order to be able to attempt to take over the ship instead of kill it (kind of a forced transfer of ownership).




Up The Irons!

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Re: Random Ideas Sun, 21 August 2011 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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TRSMMaiden wrote on Sun, 21 August 2011 23:50

I like the idea of being able to take over an enemy ship instead of destroy it.

Me too! Pirate

But it is generally assumed that ships built by another race are too hard to operate/maintain/govern, plus most races build them with automatic self-destructs, which is why everything not fleeing the battleboard ends up as smoky debris... Confused

It would be cool if some (new) PRT or LRT came with a kind of "dissonance dampener" that enabled the capture of damaged ships that became surrounded and unable to escape the battleboard. UFO abduction




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 22 August 2011 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
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How about another MT type. Instead of special MT toys, it gives race-specific items, like maybe Robber Baron, or Orbital Adjuster tech, or Any gate type, or many of the other techs only available to certain races.


BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 22 August 2011 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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BlueTurbit wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 15:04

How about another MT type. Instead of special MT toys, it gives race-specific items, like maybe Robber Baron, or Orbital Adjuster tech, or Any gate type, or many of the other techs only available to certain races.

Me likes! Pirate

Balance could become a problem, tho, if some race/item combinations became too powerful. Hit over head



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 23 August 2011 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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An expansion of the MT toy list in itself could be fun - with some items more useful than others, and some items at lower/higher tech levels than others, and some items with truly odd properties that you may or may not find an interesting use for depending on how you use them.

What about procedurally generated MT items that will be different in every game, and don't declare what their properties are so you have to experiment with using them to find out?

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 23 August 2011 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Tue, 23 August 2011 23:11

An expansion of the MT toy list in itself could be fun - with some items more useful than others, and some items at lower/higher tech levels than others, and some items with truly odd properties that you may or may not find an interesting use for depending on how you use them.

Nod

And of course the same would apply to a revised/improved/expanded techtree.


Quote:

What about procedurally generated MT items that will be different in every game

Such as...? Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 23 August 2011 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
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BlueTurbit wrote on Mon, 22 August 2011 23:04

How about another MT type. Instead of special MT toys, it gives race-specific items, like maybe Robber Baron, or Orbital Adjuster tech, or Any gate type, or many of the other techs only available to certain races.


You don't need another MT to do that ... just make it possible to acquire such a technology through battle/pop drops.

e.g. if you have 3 levels above each of the required techs for any/300 gate and you destroy one, then you get a small chance of learning the technology for yourself OR it may be that you must have a minimum of level 10 in each tech before the ability to gain such technologies can even kick in (otherwise everyone would want to be friends with or always attacking JoaT scouting hulls).



Goober.

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Re: Random Ideas Wed, 24 August 2011 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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goober wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 02:44

make it possible to acquire such a technology through battle/pop drops.

Wouldn't that blur the differences between races a bit too much? Confused

In other words, only IT races have spent enough gazillion years gating around to have evolved the very particular abilities needed to gate thru infinity and not implode in the process... Rolling Eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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