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Random Ideas Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50 Go to next message
Sober Council is currently offline Sober Council

 
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Registered: January 2005
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire, UK

I'm just going to throw out some things i've been thinking about, apologies if i repeat/steal anyones ideas Razz

PRT

JoaT
Penscans for hulls are dependant on the type of hull.
Scouts get the same ability as now.
Frigates get -33%
Destroyers get -50%

All tech has cost reduced by 5%

Mines & Factories have +1 to efficiency.

AR
AR starbases have x10 the base armour of normal, and repair at twice the normal rate.

AR colonists die in transit at normal rate, but grow when stationary (like IS)

PP
Packets cost 50% less than normal.

Mines have +1 efficiency.

Packetforming is more effective, but normal terraforming is more expensive.

IS
Colonists no longer grow on transports, but they have a greater defensive bonus.

Planetary defences have a small % chance to shoot down enemy ships in orbit.

All ships have a base 10% jamming, and a small bonus to base armour levels.

CA
Remove instaforming, but reduce cost of normal terraforming by 50%

Reduce effectiveness of orbital adjusters, and remove ability to change hostile worlds.

Retro bombs now move planet environment randomly *away* from the occupying races ideal instead of to original values.
(takes the place of OA de-terra-ing an enemy world)


LRT

OBRM
Mines have +1 efficiency.

ISB
Base armour bonus for starbases.

UR
Advanced recycling slows down depletion of mineral deposits.

BET
Increases the cost of research by 10%

Reduces the base cost of items by 5% and can minaturise down to 90%


Items

Mega Poly Shell
Increase base armour.

Langston Shell
Increase base shield.

Antimatter Torp
Reduce bio req., but increase others.

Fuel Mizer
*disable* higher warp levels with stupid fuel useage, or...
Small battle speed penalty to 'encourage' use of other engines.

Enigma Pulsar
Flatten fuel curve slightly.

Mini-Morph
Increase base armour and fuel.
Remove tiny pointless cargo hold and add two more GP slots.

Genesis Device
Changes planet environment randomly WITHIN the occupying races limits. Razz

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 17 August 2006 04:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 09:50

I'm just going to throw out some things i've been thinking about, apologies if i repeat/steal anyones ideas Razz

PRT

AR
AR starbases have x10 the base armour of normal, and repair at twice the normal rate.



What if AR bases didn't suffer the jamming cap? Or even if they could jam over 100%? Very Happy

After all, AR don't build defenses. It's only just that they could waste some effort in overjamming their DeathStars (but perhaps not their lesser hulls) to, say, 150% or even 200%. Cool


[Updated on: Thu, 17 August 2006 08:04]




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 17 August 2006 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sober Council is currently offline Sober Council

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 24
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Location: High Peak, Derbyshire, UK

Good call Very Happy
AR needs shinier bases...

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 17 August 2006 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

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Given the current state of how things are defined, some of these are already possible, and some are not.

Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


JoaT
Penscans for hulls are dependant on the type of hull.
Scouts get the same ability as now.
Frigates get -33%
Destroyers get -50%

All tech has cost reduced by 5%


This may be possible, by defining multiple hull classes, and setting scanning based on hull class. Tech cost adjustment is easy.

Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


Mines & Factories have +1 to efficiency.


This is not currently possible, although chaning the code to allow this kind of adjustment shouldn't be too hard, I think...
Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


AR
AR starbases have x10 the base armour of normal, and repair at twice the normal rate.

AR colonists die in transit at normal rate, but grow when stationary (like IS)


Different armor could be done by having different PRT only base hulls (ie, AR fort has 2500 armor, only AR can build it, and cannot build normal fort).

Growing while stationary is a bit tricky. You could give them the ability to grow in space like IS easily, and then up the transit deaths to make it so they lose say 15% a year, then a 20% AR would gain 10% (growth in freighters - the multiplier is adjustable) and lose 15% (transit deaths).
Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


PP
Packets cost 50% less than normal.

Mines have +1 efficiency.

Packetforming is more effective, but normal terraforming is more expensive.


Only mine efficiency can't be done currently.
Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


IS
Colonists no longer grow on transports, but they have a greater defensive bonus.

Planetary defences have a small % chance to shoot down enemy ships in orbit.

All ships have a base 10% jamming, and a small bonus to base armour levels.


Defensive bonus is easy. Jamming and armor would probably need a seperate ship line... Defenses shooting down ships in orbit would need some major code (and has balance issues).
Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


CA
Remove instaforming, but reduce cost of normal terraforming by 50%

Reduce effectiveness of orbital adjusters, and remove ability to change hostile worlds.

Retro bombs now move planet environment randomly *away* from the occupying races ideal instead of to original values.
(takes the place of OA de-terra-ing an enemy world)


All fairly easy, execpt moving hab randomly away. It's either worse or better, not random. However, improving the ability of the Retro bombs (and/or adding additional components) is pretty easy.
Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


LRT

OBRM
Mines have +1 efficiency.

ISB
Base armour bonus for starbases.

UR
Advanced recycling slows down depletion of mineral deposits.

BET
Increases the cost of research by 10%

Reduces the base cost of items by 5% and can minaturise down to 90%


Items

Mega Poly Shell
Increase base armour.

Langston Shell
Increase base shield.

Antimatter Torp
Reduce bio req., but increase others.

Fuel Mizer
*disable* higher warp levels with stupid fuel useage, or...
Small battle speed penalty to 'encourage' use of other engines.

Enigma Pulsar
Flatten fuel curve slightly.

Mini-Morph
Increase base armour and fuel.
Remove tiny pointless cargo hold and add two more GP slots.

Genesis Device
Changes planet environment randomly WITHIN the occupying races limits. Razz


All pretty easy, execpt:
OBRM mine efficiency.
ISB armor adjustments.
UR mineral depetion.
GD hasn't been coded yet.
Mini-Morph wouldn't have to lose the cargo hold to get more GP slots. But it could.

You could give bonuses to armor or shields based on PRT/LRT, but the armor wouldn't affect base armor (the same principle as RS). Also it currently doesn't consider hull class (so applying it only to bases wouldn't be possible).


[Updated on: Thu, 17 August 2006 10:13]




- LEit

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Re: IS defences Thu, 17 August 2006 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sober Council is currently offline Sober Council

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 24
Registered: January 2005
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire, UK

The way i imagined this working is taking the combined armour value of a fleet and comparing it somehow to the coverage & type of the defences and subtracting one from the other, and whatever 'damage' is left is applied to the fleet 1 ship at a time.

So you could have a message like:
Defensive fire from Crimson has destroyed 3 of your orbiting Light Cruisers in Sentinel #25

I tried figuring out some numbers behind it, but I've only managed to tie my head in knots Razz

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Re: IS defences Fri, 18 August 2006 06:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 17:12

The way i imagined this working is taking the combined armour value of a fleet and comparing it somehow to the coverage & type of the defences and subtracting one from the other, and whatever 'damage' is left is applied to the fleet 1 ship at a time.

So you could have a message like:
Defensive fire from Crimson has destroyed 3 of your orbiting Light Cruisers in Sentinel #25

I tried figuring out some numbers behind it, but I've only managed to tie my head in knots Razz


Sounds cool. Cool And it could have its own "preferences" like Bombers, or Freighters -- which everybody knows are somewhat more fragile than warships, specially when they have to stay stationary above given planetary coordinates. Wink



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Fri, 18 August 2006 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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LEit wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 16:12

Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 03:50


Mines & Factories have +1 to efficiency.


This is not currently possible, although chaning the code to allow this kind of adjustment shouldn't be too hard, I think...


Why not just tweak the Race Wizard? Wink Have it store the +1 mining/factory bonus right at the race definition. The rest of the game engine doesn't even need to know about it! Very Happy

BTW, isn't that how HE's "double growth" is managed [in Freestars] now? Deal


[Updated on: Fri, 18 August 2006 08:54]




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Fri, 18 August 2006 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 13:22

BTW, isn't that how HE's "double growth" is managed now? Deal

What you mean? I am sure that Stars! RW stores 20% in .R# file of 40% HE. Same structure is in .HST file and .M# file.

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Re: Random Ideas Fri, 18 August 2006 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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Kotk wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 14:46

m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 13:22

BTW, isn't that how HE's "double growth" is managed now? Deal

What you mean? I am sure that Stars! RW stores 20% in .R# file of 40% HE. Same structure is in .HST file and .M# file.




I meant in Freestars. Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Fri, 18 August 2006 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

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m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 06:22


Why not just tweak the Race Wizard? Wink Have it store the +1 mining/factory bonus right at the race definition. The rest of the game engine doesn't even need to know about it! Very Happy

BTW, isn't that how HE's "double growth" is managed [in Freestars] now?


The server needs to know about it because it verifies that the races are valid, and would charge extra points for having better efficiency. The server needs to verify the race files to prevent cheating.

And, no, HE's double growth is not in the race wizard, it's in the defination of HE:
<GrowthRateFactor>2.0</GrowthRateFactor>



- LEit

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Re: Random Ideas Fri, 18 August 2006 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Well, that makes it easy then, all you need to do is add 2 lines:
mineEfficiency+=1; factoryEfficiency+=1;
into the definition code....

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Re: Random Ideas Sat, 19 August 2006 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
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Currently there some LRTs or PRTs affect component/item costs so it is implemented. For example defenses cost 40% less for IS is defined like:
	    <ComponentCostFactor>
		    <ComponentType>Defense</ComponentType>
		    <CostFactor>0.6</CostFactor>
	    </ComponentCostFactor>

Component/item efficency or power is not implemented like that. For the special cases there are made special properties like ShieldFactor, ArmorFactor, SpaceScanFactor, PenScanFactor.

To make it possible to have PRT/LRT specific power factors for some item the existing code for such affects has to be refactoried and combined into some more universal and complex form ... so say regen shield causes:
	    <ComponentFactor>
		    <Type>Shield</Type>
		    <CostFactor>1.0</CostFactor>
		    <PowerFactor>1.4</PowerFactor>
		    <RegenFactor>0.1</RegenFactor>
	    </ComponentFactor>
This is quite big change. Nod Better lets that +1 efficency to be in unforeseeable future. Wink

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 21 August 2006 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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LEit wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 17:09

m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 06:22


Why not just tweak the Race Wizard? Wink Have it store the +1 mining/factory bonus right at the race definition. The rest of the game engine doesn't even need to know about it! Very Happy


The server needs to know about it because it verifies that the races are valid, and would charge extra points for having better efficiency. The server needs to verify the race files to prevent cheating.


Wouldn't that "validity-checking" code be part of the Race Wizard? Sherlock Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 21 August 2006 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 03:49

Wouldn't that "validity-checking" code be part of the Race Wizard?

It will, however, the server needs it too. The server will not trust any files from the client, and that includes race files. Since the file format is open, as is the code, some one could modify the code for the race wizard, give themselves a million extra points, and submit a race. Their race wizard would accept it, therefore the server has to check the racial points too.

If some one can recompile the server there is no end to the cheating they can do, so you have to trust the person running the server program, that could be the host, or some service like AutoHost.



- LEit

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 21 August 2006 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Hmm.
I am wondering if ... the rules should be tied to a freestars version or independent from it? Confused3

Current flexibility i like a lot but it also adds quite lot of complexity like:
How to realize for what rules a race is made? Rolling Eyes
Rules file must be attached to a new game announchment? Rolling Eyes
Some sort of rules viewer/editor/wizard in client? Surprised

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 22 August 2006 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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LEit wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 16:44

therefore the server has to check the racial points too.


But as far as I understand it, that only needs to be done at game creation, not for every turn. Client could send "unmodified/kosher" race *once*, then server would tweak it and store "serverside version" of race in the hst or wherever for future use. Whip

Alternatively, you could have the server automatically "discount" any PRT-related tweaks *every time* it checks the race points. Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 22 August 2006 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Kotk wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 17:34

Hmm.
I am wondering if ... the rules should be tied to a freestars version or independent from it? Confused3

Current flexibility i like a lot but it also adds quite lot of complexity like:
How to realize for what rules a race is made? Rolling Eyes
Rules file must be attached to a new game announchment? Rolling Eyes
Some sort of rules viewer/editor/wizard in client? Surprised



Some kind of version tag must be used, methinks. Sherlock

And yes, it would seem like every player will need an updated rules file, or at least its name/version for every game announced. Such as "cheats, PRT restrictions and special/MT items as defined in ruleset [#25.a] AKA <Klingon Set one>, URL=..., CRC/HASH=*****" Deal

Alternatively, have racefiles that "mutate" to adapt to changing rules... Rolling Eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Tue, 22 August 2006 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
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You are right, the server only reads the race file on game creation. And does store it in the .hst file. And in every .m file for that race - as Stars! does. If you get the .xy and .m files for a game, you can still see the race.

There is a version tag on the rules file, and it is also stored in every other file for the game. It may be possible to change the rules in the middle of the game if you change every file at once (.hst, .xy, all .m and .h files - and the server doesn't have the .h files). However, that's not a feature I plan on supporting, and may lead to some weird behavior.



- LEit

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Re: Random Ideas Mon, 28 August 2006 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
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A nice simple way of handling ruleset changes is to specify a rules version ID when the game is created, and include a .m file instruction that the rules have been changed, the new ID is "blah" and the modified ruleset(or a diff) have the client make the necessary adujstments in the .h/.xy files (if any) and the return .x file and the next .m files use the new ID

Of course this doesn't mean you can't screw a game completely with rules changes, but at least the engine won't fall down.

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Re: Random Ideas Wed, 30 August 2006 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 09:50

Genesis Device
Changes planet environment randomly WITHIN the occupying races limits. Razz



That could spoil the fun... Turn it into a too powerful item. Like CA but with free minerals thrown into the deal. Razz

Another MT toy of possibly dubious use:

The WormHole (de)stabilizer Shocked , with three possible modes of operation:

1) You pay a one-time resource cost to set it off. It slows down WH jiggle & decay, thereby helping keep useful WHs open. If the effect wears down, perhaps repeated firings are possible. Other limitations: allow only one controlled WH at once. Cool

2) You pay "maintenance" for every turn you want it operating. That should come from your research budget. No payment, it shuts off and the WH starts decaying again, perhaps faster than naturally. Possible incentives: you can manipulate several WHs at once provided you can pay. Whip

3) No "stabilizer" but "destabilizer". As one-time shot, or repeated shots to accelerate decay of troublesome WHs. No maintenance, but less overall effect, as WHs will decay anyway. Deal

4) Undocumented or poorly understood effect, as any fun MT toy: actually tease a WH towards a desired spot, perhaps even create a WH on command (might trigger self-destruct, tho) Twisted Evil


[Updated on: Wed, 30 August 2006 18:41]




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 31 August 2006 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
Lieutenant

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:24

Sober Council wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 09:50

Genesis Device
Changes planet environment randomly WITHIN the occupying races limits. Razz



That could spoil the fun... Turn it into a too powerful item. Like CA but with free minerals thrown into the deal. Razz

Another MT toy of possibly dubious use:

The WormHole (de)stabilizer Shocked , with three possible modes of operation:

1) You pay a one-time resource cost to set it off. It slows down WH jiggle & decay, thereby helping keep useful WHs open. If the effect wears down, perhaps repeated firings are possible. Other limitations: allow only one controlled WH at once. Cool

2) You pay "maintenance" for every turn you want it operating. That should come from your research budget. No payment, it shuts off and the WH starts decaying again, perhaps faster than naturally. Possible incentives: you can manipulate several WHs at once provided you can pay. Whip

3) No "stabilizer" but "destabilizer". As one-time shot, or repeated shots to accelerate decay of troublesome WHs. No maintenance, but less overall effect, as WHs will decay anyway. Deal

4) Undocumented or poorly understood effect, as any fun MT toy: actually tease a WH towards a desired spot, perhaps even create a WH on command (might trigger self-destruct, tho) Twisted Evil


WH Stabiliser would be a cool item. Perhaps one way would be to have it as a ship item which if within (say) 16ly of a wormhole prevents it from jumping/deteriorating.

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 31 August 2006 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Yes ... WH Adjuster, item of type Mining Robot.
To stop WH jiggling must get exactly to deep space in WH end. That end of WH does not jiggle. Exclamation

Random chances of degrading/jumping into random spot of universe remain if endpoint is not "Rock Solid", only jiggling stops. Nod

"Remote Mine" waypoint order in stopped endpoint gives ... 200 milligrams of antimatter per year? Laughing Remote mining at endpoint gradually stabilizes endpoint to "Rock Solid". Surprised

If to travel WH with WH Adjuster from a endpoint then that endpoint destabilizes up to one step. Idea

Traveling a "Extreme Volatile" endpoint causes that endpoint to jump. Whip

Count of WH Adjusters traveling or remote mining at endpoints do not matter, one stability step per year. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 31 August 2006 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Kotk wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:26

Yes ... WH Adjuster, item of type Mining Robot.
To stop WH jiggling must get exactly to deep space in WH end. That end of WH does not jiggle. Exclamation

Random chances of degrading/jumping into random spot of universe remain if endpoint is not "Rock Solid", only jiggling stops. Nod


Should not be too powerful/easy, otherwise, it could become unbalancing/unfun. Whip Deal Rolling Eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 31 August 2006 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 15:56

Should not be too powerful/easy, otherwise, it could become unbalancing/unfun. Whip Deal Rolling Eyes

Can you please be constructive? Rolling Eyes

I was just toying with your idea, probably it does not find its way into FreeStars in foreseeable future anyway. Confused
Generally ... i see it more as a amusing gadget ... perhaps at the useless side. Nod

Deal MT has first to sell that item.
Deal Building it takes a ship design slot and it may be pricy item.
Deal It does not let to direct the WH exactly.
Deal If WH jumped to unsuitable place then the endpoint is always rock solid first, so that still takes time to move it away (and randomly again). But at least there is a way to speed that process.
Deal Holding endpoint must be done under possible fire of opponents who have different ideas about good WH placement.
Deal Remote miners are quite easy to shoot down, especially OBRM miners.
Deal There are usually not so lot of WH-s around.

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Re: Random Ideas Thu, 31 August 2006 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Kotk wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 17:30

Deal MT has first to sell that item.


Just a question of probability (perhaps quite low) Deal

Then you select a planet and Queue it (ala Genesis Device) or tick a checkbox in the Research Pane (ala Generalized Research) and "point" it to your pet WH. Deal

You tweak the device settings if it has those, and deal with any hostiles at the other side any way you can. Deal

Amuse yourself with your new not-quite-controlled-nor-particularly-exclusive inf/inf Gate. Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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