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Beams - DN or BB Sun, 25 June 2006 12:37 Go to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
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Currently playing my first game with a warmonger.
I have DN and 300/500 gates, most of the rest of the universe has BBs.

Do I
a) Build DN beamers as they are so much better than BB beamers and anyway its the missle DNs that are slowing me down.
b) Build BB beamers because they are gateable and as such even though they are only 1/4 as good as DNs they can be in "several" places in the time it takes a DN to get there.
C) Some of both? (although ships slots are becoming a problem).



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Sun, 25 June 2006 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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I wonder what game this could be? Razz

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Sun, 25 June 2006 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
joseph wrote on Sun, 25 June 2006 18:37

Do I
a) Build DN beamers as they are so much better than BB beamers

Yep. Wink
You can use FM for engine, and 1 or 2 OTs in front slot for extra low weight to get more gateable design.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Sun, 25 June 2006 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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He doesn't have FM (big mistake IMO).

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Mon, 26 June 2006 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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PricklyPea wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 01:19

He doesn't have FM (big mistake IMO).

QJ5 and 2 OT have 2.25 speed at 349kT Dread. Jep, got to have less equipment at some dread slots for that weight, but almost there, happy testbedding. Smile

Up to 400kT is still quite gateable on emergency so... RAD ram and LH6 are also thinkable alternatives to FM.

Finally with TGMS even no overthrusters are needed and its still sub 400kT.

Generally ... it sucks to be defensive with WM anyway. Very Happy

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Mon, 26 June 2006 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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Kotk wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 11:46


Generally ... it sucks to be defensive with WM anyway. Very Happy


But being attacking is quite fun Wink

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Mon, 26 June 2006 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
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Kotk wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 16:46

Generally ... it sucks to be defensive with WM anyway. Very Happy


Why bother defending? Let him attack, and attack back somewhere else. Try and take out his planets faster than he can take yours out.

ccmaster and myself were playing this game for a long while in Sanity. Of course, while we did that a couple of the other players built up huge economies Embarassed

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Mon, 26 June 2006 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Staz wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 22:08

Kotk wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 16:46

Generally ... it sucks to be defensive with WM anyway. Very Happy


Why bother defending? Let him attack, and attack back somewhere else. Try and take out his planets faster than he can take yours out.

It is very hard to win a game with such a berserker strategy. Very Happy

I actually meant ... it sucks to defend when playing with WM (not against one). Nod

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Mon, 26 June 2006 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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joseph wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 02:37

b) Build BB beamers because they are gateable and as such even though they are only 1/4 as good as DNs they can be in "several" places in the time it takes a DN to get there.


I think the answer to your question is buried in this statement - If the DNs are that much more effective, then they can also quite literally be in more than one place at once - you can build two or more fleets each with greater power than the combined BB fleet would have had anyway...

Supposing that the DNs are 4x as effective, as you say, then the BBs would only start to become interesting defensively if you needed to cover five or more fronts at once. Even then it's not an easy decision.

BBs are also interesting if you need to get ships to the front extremely quickly. Although the gatable-with-losses style of designs above are probably more efficient there.


[Updated on: Mon, 26 June 2006 20:17]

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Tue, 27 June 2006 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Dogthinkers wrote on Tue, 27 June 2006 03:16

think the answer to your question is buried in this statement - If the DNs are that much more effective, then they can also quite literally be in more than one place at once - you can build two or more fleets each with greater power than the combined BB fleet would have had anyway...

He probably did mean some one-on-one (not cash-on-cash)comparision there. WM beam DN is only about twice better than others beam BB when compared cash-on-cash. Nod

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Tue, 27 June 2006 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
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Kotk wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 22:46

It is very hard to win a game with such a berserker strategy. Very Happy


That's what I found Sad Still, you can try to destroy your opponent's economy faster than he can destroy yours, which is essentially what wars are about.

Of course, it helps to be factoryless or similar, so losing planets isn't too expensive.

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Wed, 28 June 2006 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
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Thanks - my naturaly frugal attitude means I dont like losing any ships to the void.
I built DN as bigger, Faster and more punch.

I may need to look at a slimmed down version - but no FM or other ram engines so that may be tricky.

(oh and yes I meant 1/4 in ship by ship combat it is closer to 1/2 on cost)



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Thu, 29 June 2006 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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joseph wrote on Thu, 29 June 2006 00:35

I may need to look at a slimmed down version - but no FM or other ram engines so that may be tricky.

QJ5 version is not so tricky ...
for example trim down firepower: qj5 engine, 5 sappers, 19 beams, 4 jammers, 4 capasitors, 2 overthrusters, full set of shields, no armor.

When other guy is using IS-10 as his BB engine then you are basically building a whole such dread for his BB-s cost, and its still about 3 times better ship.

Adds some MM however ... if you target something with it you got to check the things like fuel and warp.

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Re: Beams - DN or BB Sat, 01 July 2006 01:39 Go to previous message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
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joseph wrote on Sun, 25 June 2006 09:37

Currently playing my first game with a warmonger.
I have DN and 300/500 gates, most of the rest of the universe has BBs.

Do I
a) Build DN beamers as they are so much better than BB beamers and anyway its the missle DNs that are slowing me down.
b) Build BB beamers because they are gateable and as such even though they are only 1/4 as good as DNs they can be in "several" places in the time it takes a DN to get there.
C) Some of both? (although ships slots are becoming a problem).


I really shouldn't help you with this since you are currently invading my space. WM happens to be my specialty so it's good to see a WM do well. It is, after all, a fun fun PRT.

Firstly, you must consider the main purpose of the ships. I like to decide what I'm going to do with a ship before I build it.

If you're invading someone else's space, by all means, build the big bad DNs, they are nice ships. Take care to do proper intel so things don't surprise you and you can generally throw your weight around, hopefully nobody decides to attack the rear.

If you want a more flexible fleet, consider a BC rather than BB. Their only disadvantage comes into play against missle wielding fleets with the lower base armor, which, by your playstyle, would use chaff to help your ships out. They are lighter than BBs, allowing you to pick the range - say Range 2 vs a more expensive range 3 which usually compensates for the lack of elect slots vs a BB. If you use gatlings you will gain initiative as well over a standard range 3 beamer. You will generally find them more cost effective than BBs when properly employed. At least I do, I love the BC hull and employ it extensively through the game. I never build a single BB as a WM.

There are good advantage to having a gateable reserve fleet, especially one that gates with no losses. They make your opponent think a little harder about attacking a planet, he may have to tangle with that extra fleet that's wandering around out there,
...

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