| timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Tue, 06 June 2006 12:28  |
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Hmmm.
Is this a bug or a feature?
I always thought that if I got my driver built when the packet was in space (or not launched yet), that my driver would catch the packet.
I had just had two planets packeted, and they were lost, even though the packets should have been caught.
the drivers were build the *same* turn the packets were launched, but the packets both spent one turn in space. So the SB drivers were up and running when the packets arrived.
I understand that because of the order of events, you cannot build a driver (or defenses) the *same* turn a packet hits and expect them to have any affect.
naz
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Thu, 08 June 2006 11:38  |
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no, it was a warp7 that fired at warp10, and I had it built when it was in space, though not when it was fired.
turn1
I colonize planet and put warp 10 dock in queue
enemy fires packet from warp7 driver at warp10
turn2
I build warp10 dock
packet is in space
turn3
my pop is wiped out.
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I thought the driver should have caught the packet.
naz
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Thu, 08 June 2006 11:52 |
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 vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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| bigcanuknaz wrote on Thu, 08 June 2006 08:38 |
no, it was a warp7 that fired at warp10, and I had it built when it was in space, though not when it was fired.
turn1
I colonize planet and put warp 10 dock in queue
enemy fires packet from warp7 driver at warp10
turn2
I build warp10 dock
packet is in space
turn3
my pop is wiped out.
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I thought the driver should have caught the packet.
naz
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As described that does seem wrong. So, the enemy's firing planet was more than 150ly from the target planet so that it took three years to arrive at the target, correct? You finished building a SD with a Warp 10 driver at the target the year that the packet was visible in space going Warp 10, then the next year the packet arrived and despite the presence of a Warp 10 driver the packet killed off all the population, correct? Assuming all those factors are correct I believe this would be a big bug, but it is not something that I'm aware of happening and think that I would, so I'm still expecting that you missed something in the sequence described.
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Thu, 08 June 2006 16:06 |
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just 2 years to arrive. Planet was more than 50 ly from target.
but yes, it was in space the year my driver was built.
Exactly... Seems contrary to what I have read. I have the files to send to someone who can check if I missed something... I have checked and double checked myself. but it is an ongoing game. So I might wait a bit to send them, depending on who the recipient is.
naz
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Thu, 08 June 2006 20:35 |
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So... Was the dock with warp10 driver actually present, complete and ready to use, on a turn that the packet was still in space, or was it in it's final year of production the year before the packet struck?
If the driver was actually shown on the starmap before the packet arrived, then there's an issue here. If it hadn't yet made it out of the build queue then there's no technical problem here.
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Thu, 08 June 2006 22:18 |
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| NingunOtro |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium | |
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Hi,
I have some trouble with your timing, and possibly also with your wording.
First, I can think of no possible way to colonize a planet, neither as wp0 or wp1 task, and in the same turn have anything but autobuild orders in its build queue through the default autobuild order, so you could not possibly colonize and give a starbase build order in the same turn, and thus no starbase can ever be operational the second turn.
As far as I know, the fastest you can go is:
Turn 1: You colonize, either wp1 of an arriving colony ship or wp0 of an colony ship already in orbit.
Turn 2: You order the orbital with the mass driver.
Turn 3: Provided you had all the required minerals present and enough resources to process the build order in one year, the base gets built under normal circumstances. Too late to catch any packet that was scheduled for inpact on this turn if it was in space already, as in-space packet movement and possible damage happens before the build queue is processed and thus the starbase does not intervene in the handling of the incoming packet, but on time if the packet was also built last turn as those do obviously not operate before their creation in the enemies build process and thus give you enough time to process your own queue as well. As you say the enemy planet is >50ly away from yours this is not your case. Depending on the resources of your planet and the strength of the packet you might have enough left after the impact to finish the base anyway.
Turn 4: If you had enough resources left to finish the base last turn, this year is the first it is fully operational against in-space packets.
Second, you say the enemy launches the packet the same turn you colonize. How does he know how to synchronize, or rather, how do you know he has done that?
Either he has a scan of your colonizer within 1 turn of travel for a wp1 colonization, or in orbit of the planet for a wp0 colonization, and he has to guess that you will be efectively colonizing, but he sees the planet still as non-colonized when he gives the build order, or he has a scan of a populated planet at the moment he gives the build order.
Now, depending on what you mean by building, be it giving the order when it effectively can be given, or executing it when it effectively can be executed, and what event effectively triggers the enemy into giving the build order for the packet in any specific turn, a few specific scenarios can be worked out to sincronize the actions of both players and predict possible outcomes.
Given the distance you mention, the enemy needs 3 turns to impact on your planet:
Turn 1: Give the packet build order.
Turn 2: Build the packet and send it away 1/2 the normal distance (the turn you can see it in space).
Turn 3: Impact.
Without uniquely interpretable data as a background, nothing really useful can be said about the issue, but this gives you enough facts to figure out what really happened.
If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Fri, 09 June 2006 17:35 |
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no built means up and running
I put it in the queue the year I colonized, with a 1 year completion.
so the next year, the dock was built, and i saw the packets in space and ::grinned:: a bit...
To my surprise, the planet was gone the next turn.
We have another trial this year...
Though it is a warp10 driver and it has a couple of warp13 packets heading it's way.
I'll check it out on starscalc, and see if I *should* survive or not. But given what happened 2 years ago, I'd say my driver won't even catch part of the packet.
btw, how does it work when a planet is hit by multiple packets from different senders (2 diff races in this case). Is it different for same race from 2 planets versus diff planets and diff races?
naz
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Sat, 10 June 2006 07:52 |
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| bigcanuknaz wrote on Fri, 09 June 2006 22:35 |
btw, how does it work when a planet is hit by multiple packets from different senders (2 diff races in this case). Is it different for same race from 2 planets versus diff planets and diff races?
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Multiple packet attacks are nasty, whether they are from different races or not. I was in a game a while back and had a fully populated, fully defended (90%+) established planet with an MD in orbit wiped out without notice by a multi-packet strike. I was an IT and only had an MD-10, but even so it was a shock.
Two huge warp-13 packets from within 84ly so neither was in space at all. The first one hit and destroyed a load of defenses. The second one wiped out the rest of the poulation.
What really freaked me out was that the race that launched them was an AR with a mineral fountain, so they could keep that up forever!
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Mon, 12 June 2006 06:54 |
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yup, IT...
I know I have more mineral loss sending packets.. How am I less effective catching them... Especially warp 10 packets caught at warp10 drivers?
naz
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Tue, 13 June 2006 04:01 |
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| bigcanuknaz wrote on Mon, 12 June 2006 11:54 |
yup, IT...
I know I have more mineral loss sending packets.. How am I less effective catching them... Especially warp 10 packets caught at warp10 drivers?
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Simplest thing is to use the packet calculator on the SBPosey Stars spreadsheet.
For example, a 3600kT packet at warp 10, from a warp-10 driver to a warp-10 driver 150ly away, no defenses on the target planet, which has a population of 500000.
For non-IT, the planet catches all 3600kT.
For IT, BOOM, the planet is wiped out.
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Tue, 13 June 2006 04:15 |
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So, essentially, if you are IT and want a planet to survive a packet strike, build defenses not a mass-driver.
A MD-10 (without minaturisation) costs 968 resources. This is enough to build 64 defenses.
If you have en-16 (you must have at least 15 for the MD-10) then you have planetary shields.
From starsfaq.com, Def(pop) = 1-((1-d)^n), where d=2.99% for planetary shields, ie 1 - ((1-0.0299)^64) = about 86%.
According to the spreadsheet, if you had built this instead you would only have lost 157,500 colonists (and 20 defenses) to that 3600kT packet in my last example, and you'd have managed to recover 1200kT minerals as well.
[Could someone check my numbers?]
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Wed, 14 June 2006 09:19 |
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I was just wondering what is the best thing to do the next turn (after building those 64 defenses).
Going from 64 to 100 defenses (95% coverage) takes losses down to 56500.
It takes 540 resources to top out the defenses, so you have 428 left. At en-16, the en-9 MD-7 should cost about 384 resources, so you can build one of these as well. This takes losses down to 42500.
Alternatively, building the MD-10 instead of the defences & MD7 only reduces the losses to 84500.
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Fri, 16 June 2006 15:17 |
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wow.
thanks everyone.
I'll do defenses first from now on.
Now!!! I know why everyone is throwing packets at me like mad....
naz
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| Re: timing - driver build and packet hit. |
Thu, 22 June 2006 11:05 |
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| bigcanuknaz wrote on Fri, 16 June 2006 22:17 |
wow.
thanks everyone.
I'll do defenses first from now on.
Now!!! I know why everyone is throwing packets at me like mad....
naz
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Well, you're going to be winner there, so no wonder 
WBR, Vlad
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in-space packet hit is event #5
