Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » tech swap and research costs
| Re: tech swap and research costs |
Tue, 25 April 2006 07:51   |
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 m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| NingunOtro wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 20:37 |
So, if you use the scrapper at that moment, it will earn you exactly the 50 resources needed to reach the next level, and nothing more.
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Wrong. You may be using "switch to other tech on completion" orders which might be confusing you, but scrappers do actually give a full level's resources, and it's quite easy to testbed for that. I've been always referring to the case where the player doesn't switch research fields on completion. What I haven't tested/noticed is if the GR bonus applies to the scrapper resources too, or to the MT resources, for that matter. Perhaps someone already knows? 
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Obviously, you have not given the "bang for the buck" approach enough thought.
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It may depend on personal definition of "enough" but you can bet I've given most imaginable optimization strategies a *lot* of thought. 
In my "examples" , extracted from actual games, I'm always budgeting more than enough resources to finish each techlevel, not only to cover for unexpected production snags, but also to try and get another of those beautiful "scrap/popdrop for current techlevel, get next techlevel for about the same expenses" payoffs that are so interesting to get.  As Leit thoroughly explained, pulling a string of such can do wonders to your position in any given game, and you can hardly ask for more "bang for your buck" than that. 
All in all, the only thing here that could conceivably be called a "bug" would be when the popdrop/scrap resources get detoured to a different field thanks to "switch on completion" orders. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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| Re: tech swap and research costs |
Tue, 25 April 2006 15:52 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| NingunOtro wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 18:47 |
Thanks for the link, Micha.
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You're welcome. Not sure if it contributes much, just remarkable the difference is almost exact a year.
I remember some other discussions in the case of SS spy bonus and races with GR ... though couldn't find them that easily at the forum (the search function has some serious issues), or they happened on the newsgroup ... (most likely since *everything* seems to have been discussed already).
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I'll give it some deep thought of myself and test my own hypotheses under conditions I can control before I say anything more on the matter, which is what I would have done anyway if not misled by Leit's wording.
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Heh, well, you may notice I myself also came to the wrong conclusions following "Stars! logic" ...  Seems like the only way to be ever sure is test test test ... or in the (favorite) words of m.a :
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Strange how some sentences can be read to say either one thing or just the opposite. That is why I always use more than one to provide context to focus interpretation.
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Oh, I noticed that, more than one, more than two or three even. When I'm short in time and *accidently* open one of your posts I usually go "Doh!"
mch
[Updated on: Tue, 25 April 2006 15:54] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: tech swap and research costs |
Tue, 25 April 2006 21:25 |
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| LEit |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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| Marduk wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 00:10 |
So how do you think this split research technique would work with Generalized Research?
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Actually, it was GR that led me to discover split research, I had an ally with GR who was getting a bunch of resources into a field that I was doing most of the research, and when he got close to a level, we made sure he was at my level before he finished it, and then made sure to transfer it back to me before I kept on researching. I think that also made it clear that you get the resources for a full level when you get tech. (high levels of expensive elec tech for two -f races it took a few turns to get each level). I realized that what I'd done could work in other games, especially team games, and EACvsIRC was a good place for it.
So, this could work with GR, although GR cuts your research in the primary field in half, which would slow this down, other fields you just need to keep an eye on and when you get close, spend a bit on finishing off a level.
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: tech swap and research costs |
Wed, 26 April 2006 11:55 |
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So how do you think this split research technique would work with Generalized Research?
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GR would make things a bit more complicated for the race that has it. The race with GR has to plan accordingly since only half of the amount spent goes to the selected field. The gain of research points remains constant though for the tech swap. A race with GR that spends one selected field then is automatically changing to research a different field will still gain the amount of resources as described earlier. The excess points that go into the second field being researched will not get divided and applied to the all the other fields since that only happens with the half of the points that are being applied to all fields.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: tech swap and research costs |
Sun, 30 April 2006 18:08 |
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Pop drop tech trading has one main advantage for 2 players - it tends to keep you both quite even with tech levels.
Consider this - one player has weaps cheap, the other has con cheap (or weaps and con cheap). Generally, you don't know what other players will have set for research costs other than being fairly certain that most (if not all) will have weaps cheap. If your first encounter is with a neighbor that is AR - he most likely will have energy cheap. You may get lucky and get a neighbor with some other field cheap (or you may be the one that is offering something other than weaps cheap).
You find 3 planets in close proximity that are ideal for pop drop exchange since they are red to both you and your ally. Now, you set up your exchange and co-ordinate research. As the game progresses and you 'catch up' to each other for the early techs to where you are only a level apart in two fields, you will stay only ever one level behind each other as research gets more expensive. In the 40's, where a new level is only one year of reseearch, you actually double up getting an extra level for free each turn. This is especialy good for those expensive techs - i.e. I research the next level of elec in one turn and my ally does the same in energy - a key to make this more productive is always plan ahead and set your research to automatically go to another field for extra points to go there. Now, you get that next cheap construction level in one year or that next wepons level with one more year of research - this time the extra points go to a different expensive field.
Nothing beats pop drop tech exchange when it's managed correctly. The most important thing is that the waypoint 0 orders to drop are set every year, the waypoint one ships are monitored to make sure there is enough pop and then replenished early enough and the waypoint 0 ships are also replenished early enough - (and don't let those waypoint one ships run out of fuel either). One screw up and you lose a few tech level gains while the operation gets reset.
Incidently, the waypoint one drop orders will pick up a tech level the same turn that the waypoint 0 race researches it.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Sun, 30 April 2006 18:09]
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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