| transferred robber baron |
Sun, 02 April 2006 11:03  |
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I did a quick search, but could not find anytning quickly.
I am guessing, to use the steal cargo capability of the robber baron scanner, you need to be PRT SS.
A transferred robber baron will still have the penetrating scanner, but not the steal cargo capability...
Is this correct?
Thus the SS trading them might as well put them on a frigate, rather than a galleon.
naz
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Sun, 02 April 2006 11:39  |
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There is only one caveat with the SS scanners and it applies to all races - SS included. You can not assign waypoint one load orders to load minerals with the scanners. All mineral loads must be done manually with waypoint 0. This change happened when the bug was fixed to prevent the scanners from loading colonists.
Ptolemy
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Sun, 02 April 2006 12:56 |
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| Quote: |
However if you ask Robber to load germanium/all awailble then it does. :-/
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I will test this since I haven't seen it happen. I don't use quickload orders generally anyway since I prefer to make sure I take germanium. I have a zip order I call equal load which assigns a percentage of 30% iron and 30% boranium with the rest being taken in germanium - this zip load order does not work. It may be that none of the default or custom orders work but fleet specific waypoint one orders assigned from the drop down menus do.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Sun, 02 April 2006 12:57]
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Sun, 02 April 2006 13:14 |
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I have just completed a test sequence for the Robber Baron. If the Robber Baron fleet is given specific waypoint one load orders using the drop down lists, the waypoint one load order will indeed succeed. If the order is given as a custom order or one of the default load orders from the selection diamond, the waypoint one orders will not work.
Ptolemy
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Mon, 03 April 2006 04:53 |
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I hate to ask but...
Can you WP1 load(steal) colonists using the drop-drop orders?
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Mon, 03 April 2006 05:33 |
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All colonist stealing was fixed with the JRC 4 patch. The side effect of the bug fix was the bug that was created disabling the zip order waypoint 1 load. I helped beta test that patch before it came out and I have not found any way to steal colonists with either the Robber Baron or the Pick Pocket scanners.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Mon, 03 April 2006 05:35]
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Tue, 04 April 2006 22:26 |
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thank you!
so the best ship to be transferred is in most cases, probably the frigate. And then as was said, use a freighter if you want to steal minerals...
still, the primary benefit will be the scanners...
Hello there shiver!!
naz
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Tue, 04 April 2006 23:37 |
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Actually, I would always prefer to have the Robber Barons on a rogue. For one thing, you get to have US cloaks and the Robber Baron ship is 98% cloaked. There's the advantage of the 500kt cargo hold - and I like to use a few super cargo pods (or the MT pod if it's avvailable) so the Rogue has a cargo boost.
Ptolemy
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Wed, 05 April 2006 02:44 |
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| wumpus |
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Messages: 114
Registered: September 2004 | |
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| Ptolemy wrote on Sun, 02 April 2006 19:14 |
I have just completed a test sequence for the Robber Baron. If the Robber Baron fleet is given specific waypoint one load orders using the drop down lists, the waypoint one load order will indeed succeed. If the order is given as a custom order or one of the default load orders from the selection diamond, the waypoint one orders will not work.
Ptolemy
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This is remarkable; do you have files for this that you could send me, including your stars.ini? I'd be very curious to see what is going on, in paticular in the X file, for this effect to arise.
The reason it seems so odd to me is that the 'zip orders' are - I had believed so far - a *purely* client-side thing - stored in the INI file and nowhere else. I took it to essentially just be a "macro" for setting the manual orders to some specific settings, and that the X file never had the zip orders in per se, but rather just the "expanded" version of the "macro".
It seems there's some detail here that I had missed, and this could be very useful for purposes of working out the last few unknown bits of the stars! file formats 
If you don't want to or can't send me your test data I can ofc make it up myself, but hey, if someone has done the hard work already...
(personal replies please by email: das.wumpus@gmail.com)
Michael "Wumpus" Zinn
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Wed, 05 April 2006 02:55 |
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This is pure speculation, but it could be that zip orders set orders for every loadable item (possibly with a value of zero) and then the whole order gets chucked out by JRC4 when it sees the colonist load order in there. Pure speculation, but it would make a crazy sort of sense.
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Thu, 06 April 2006 13:02 |
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hmmm...
seems there is more to this than I first thought.
1. - US cloaks.
Which is true? That the rogue can use more US cloaks, or that the rogue only can use US cloaks.... I can't see why a frigate could not use US cloaks.
2. - 98% cloaking.
Does the intrinsic SS cloaking of their ships transfer along with the ship? I always understood that these things did not transfer (for example, intrinsic scanning of JOAT basic ships).
3. - Cargo
The only advantage I would see is a cargo ship that might be mine resistant, or slightly more battle resistant, as compared to a large freighter. I would think the same thing (almost) could be achieved by a fleet of 1 robber baron frigate, and some galleons?? Obviously, if 1 or 2 is correct, then combining with 3 might be a good idea? There is also the possibility of arming the rogue, to make it immune to kill unarmed battle orders.
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Hmmm... possibly the mine resistance alone would make it worthwhile... But wow, for scanning, say 50 ships... That is a *lot* more resources...
edit: Also, the rogue has only 1 scanner slot, compared to 2 with the frigate... so you would be trading away the possibility of an extra 12 ly of pen scanning. I am still trying to decide whether that boost is worth the significant extra cost of 2 vs 1 robber baron on a frigate...
naz
[Updated on: Thu, 06 April 2006 13:06] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Thu, 06 April 2006 13:27 |
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The base 75% cloaking of an SS ship does NOT transfer with the ship. That is a trait of the SS race.
The main reason that US cloaks are a waste on a frigate is that in order to create overcloaking you need mass. A frigate is too light to use as an overcloaker. A Frigate could have use of an ultra stealth cloak if it was to be a scanning spy ship perhaps or a cloaked sweeper (though a DD would be better for a cloaked sweeper since it could be created to sustain one mine hit and survive)
There are 2 uses for ultra stealth cloaks - cloaking the given ship to as much as possible OR creating a ship that, when in a fleet with other ships - cloaks them also. i.e. an overcloaker.
In the Academy you will find a post (by me) of the absolute maximum overcloaker designs.
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=188 1&rid=343&S=e0f539e274de3dfc5093144c047efcf0&pl_ view=&start=0#msg_15786
Ptolemy
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Thu, 06 April 2006 14:32 |
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| Kotk wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 13:44 |
Its probably waste of a design slot to build worse design for ally.
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Hmmm... never thought of a "combo" ship that both of us could use... Just thought he would build them for me and then delete the design.
I guess since this is prolly the "final" design, that having the ability to always add more would be useful.
Also, I am beginning to see the use of a bit beefier ship. I don't think it will matter much in battles. Either you win the battle, and the robber baron ship survives, or you loose, and it dies. Other than target unarmed, other outcomes will be less likely. But the minefield issue is a good one.
So....
I guess there are 2 ways to go:
1. A beefy low attractiveness ship with a missle (to avoid attack unarmed), that travels with big fleets for protection.
2. An overcloaker. I guess for the overcloaker, you would add heavy armour to the shield/armour slot, and cloaks everywhere else. This ship would *not* travel with your large fleets, but close to (ahead of?) them, and depend on cloaking to avoid detection.
Which, (or another) is best?
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Hmmmm.... opposing minefields (SD for sure, and others too???) act as scanners. How does cloaking relate to minefields acting as scanners? No SD enemies yet, but who knows...
naz
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Fri, 07 April 2006 00:28 |
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As someone who does play a lot of SS races, I'll give you one of my favorite ship designs that I like to use for Robber Barons:
Rogue
Best Engine - preferably something that goes warp 10
Shield/Armor slot - best shields
1 Robber Baron
3 Ultra Stealth cloaks (one in one of the elec slots, 2 in one of the 'two piece' slots - doesn't matter which)
at least 4 super cargo pods
This leaves one 2x GP slot and one elec slot to play with - I generaly like a jammer 30 in the elec slot - but, this can be used for any electrical item. Since I haven't actually looked to see how cloaked the ship is for a non SS, a 4th US cloak may be wise here - a multi-function pod would be better if the MT part is available since it would increase the escape speed to 2 on the battle board.
That second GP slot has several possibilities -
1: weapons - this prevents enemies from using 'target unarmed ships' to kill the robber baron ship - however, in order to be effective, you would need to have enough of your own armed ships to win the battle or at least tie up enough rounds for the robber baron ship to escape.
2: Mines - it's always nice to be able to lay mines where they are not wanted.
3: more cargo space - the more minerals you can fit in the ship, the more you can steal.
Granted, if the MT cargo pod is available - you want it used for the cargo pods.
The reasoning behind this ship is that it works as a very fast freighter and steals the minerals. It's also 98% cloaked. I generally use a design that is under 200kt - I want it gateable and I want to be able to build it at a space dock.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Fri, 07 April 2006 00:30]
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Fri, 07 April 2006 11:28 |
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 vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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My friend NeoGrendal came up with what I consider the best RB ship design I've seen:
Galleon hull
Best engine (Enigma if available)
1x RB
6x Super Cargo Pod (if you get the MT cargo pod this design gets ultra sweet)
4x best shield
2x Ultra Cloak
2x Overthruster (in some configurations this can give a 2.5 move even to a loaded ship!)
This hull has a cargo capacity of 1,600kT (or better with the MT Cargo Pod), a move of 2.5, and a cloaking of at least 97% (98% with the MT Pod). This means that the ship is very rugged, using best shield on a Galleon hull means at least 900dp in both shielding and armor, and very fast at a move of 2.5, so it is very difficult to shoot these ships down before they disengage even without the presence of freighter chaff. The large cargo capacity means that small groups of these ships can often completely drain a planet of its lowest mineral type, thus taking the planet effectively out of production. IMO the primary use of RB raiding is to take enemy planets out of production and not to steal minerals for ones own use. I tend to take the minerals into space and dump them rather than try to make it back to my space with the minerals. By simply dumping the minerals I both shorten my turn around time to steall more minerals and take yet more enemy planets out of production, and I prevent my enemy from recovering the minerals through salvage if he can track down and destroy my raiding ships.
[Edited to specify the Super Cargo Pod rather than the Cargo Pod.]
[Updated on: Fri, 14 April 2006 18:38] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Thu, 13 April 2006 22:44 |
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those look great.
What about the combination of robber baron scanner and overcloaker? Is this worthwhile, or is it best to wait for nubs for overcloakers?
From my reading it seems that extra US cloaks on the overcloaker do not add to the fleets cloaking. It is simply
OvercloakerWeight/(FleetCombinedWeight) x 98%
assuming the overcloaker is fully cloaked.
Is this correct?
naz
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Fri, 14 April 2006 00:36 |
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An alternative with galleon, especially if you don't have a warp 10 engine is cheap engines and lots of man-jets or overthrusters rather than super cargo pods.
Sometimes cheaper is better, more hulls means more armour/easier to survive, cheaper to risk.
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| Re: transferred robber baron |
Fri, 14 April 2006 12:34 |
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Galleons do make acceptable overcloakers. Nubians are, of course better but, the galleon will do in sufficient numbers. My recomendation though is to have the SS transfer Robber Baron raiders to add to your fleet and don't use galleons for a combined Robber Baron overcloaker. The Rogue is cheaper for the SS to produce and, if you give it a decent engine, Overthrusters (or maneuvering jets) to battle speed 2.5, add one slot of gatling guns and make sure it has orders to get out of battle ASAP you can add them to your fleet when hitting enemy planets to take enemy minerals from the surface. Since they have a weapon, they can't be targeted with the target unarmed ships order and, they won't be the target of choice since they can be built with lower attractiveness then other warships. In a battle where a number of your ships get destroyed, the Robber Baron ships will likely have escaped, still be in orbit and able to remove all of a given mineral from the surface preventing any new cinstruction at the planet for some time.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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Opponent does not like that you have penscanners (but with cloaks he does not hopefully see them).
