This game offer is inspired by this thread in the bar and this section of my website

Initially, I am looking for 5 EMPIRE PLAYERS ONLY, read further to understand what that means and when I will be looking for Pirate Players.

The Setup
Played on AutoHost
26hr gens until voted otherwise.
5 Empire Players
10 Pirate Players
1 Pirate Controller aka PC (Host)
Medium,Normal?/Dense?,Remapped,Pregenned
Max-mins off
Slow Tech off
AccBBS on
Random Events optional
PPS off
Galaxy Clumping optional
Votes will be taken for density,random event and galaxy clumping when all the Empire player slots are filled.
The "end of the game" is when an Empire player wins. A Pirate winner will also be declared at this point (see below). Other minor pirate awards may also be given)

Diplomacy
All players will set the PC as friend, otherwise there are no restrictions on diplomacy, any race whether Empire or Pirate may ally(or otherwise) with any player they wish. No player is to attack the PC worlds at any time. Tech or ship trading between players is encouraged, without limits. Note that the PC is the only source of SS specific parts.

Pirate Controller(PC)
The PC's sole purpose is to provide ships for Pirate players(only.) Will be a 1WW SS w/IFE,UR,MA and identical hab centers as the Pirate races and will take over all the pirate HW's. The PC starbases will be armed to prevent them being enveloped by minefields.

Empire players
The Empire players are essentially normal players with the added complication that they must contend(or co-operate) with the pirate players. They need to be reasonably experienced players. If you're not sure if you qualify, then you probably don't. All decisions requiring a player vote will be taken from Empire players only and require a majority of votes to win. Empire players win by the usual means, i.e. subjugating the other empire players or by majority vote. During the remapping they will be roughly evenly spread around the outside of the galaxy.
The following restrictions apply to Empire players:
*Banned:SS, IT, NAS & OBRM
CA must leave 150 pts on defenses(or 200pts on anything)
SD must leave 50 pts on defenses (or 100pts to anything)
JoaT must leave 50 pts to defenses(or 100pts to anything)
PC player must be set to Friend.
*Maximum of x/x/10 or x/5/x mine settings (individual player choice)
A limit of one -f empire race. First racefile in first served. (AR doesn't count as -f here)
* -M (5/15/5 mines) races may choose any race settings except SS


Pirate players
I will call for Pirate players when all the Empire players are found. The 10 Pirate players fill all the remaining player slots and have no planets or population. Each Pirate player is granted a set of starting ships & cash(minerals) by the PC. The Pirate players win by amassing the largest "treasure hoard" by the end of the game. Each Pirate player must keep an unarmed ship stationed at the PC HW at all times. This is to prevent the race from being killed off by the game engine. All pirate players will be set to inactive on AutoHost - be sure to turn in before the PC and/or last Empire player. The races will be named by the first 10 pirate players - first in, first named. Pirate players may be from any skill level.
All Pirate players will have the following race settings:SS, IFE, NAS. Half(5) will have RS(again first in, first served).
An endless supply of pirates: Should a Pirate player lose all his ships (other than the scout at the PC HW) he is considered to have died in battle and his demise is broadcast to all by the PC player. The Pirate player forfeits his place in the treasure hoarding race and his player spot may be given to another player(or he may start over). The new Pirate player is given starting ships, of a reasonably "current" tech level and must choose a new treasure planet before amassing his treasure hoard. The RB ship Jolly Roger is a king peice for pirates, lose it and you're dead. Upgrades are available by trading the Jolly Roger in. PC Stargates will be available for use. Each Pirate is assigned one design slot for their exclusive use. The remain slots will be used for standard/popular designs.

Treaure Hoards
Each pirate player selects a "treasure world" which they will use to collect their horde. Treasure worlds must not be inhabited by any race. Selecting a treasure world involves sending an in-game message to the PC. For the purposes of winning, only minerals on the treasure world are counted. Minerals still in freighters or owing from other players are not counted. If a pirate player wishes to change the treasure world they may do so by sending an in-game message to the PC player and is effective the turn the PC receives the message. Moving the hoard to the new planet is the responsibility of the pirate player. If a treasure planet becomes inhabited by an Empire player the pirate player forfeits his/her hoard at the discretion of the colonising Empire player and must select a new treasure planet before amassing a new hoard.

Ship Trading
Pirate players (only) may "purchase" ships from the PC for a price that is generally relative to the cost of building it. Payment is in minerals and must be made at any PC in advance. Pirate players may "trade-in" their existing ships for credit/payment equal to the minerals recovered. SS specific parts(except RB) are charged as if they were commonly available tech. Non-SS specific parts are available, but newer tech parts will be more costly and advanced tech items get very expensive. The relative availibilty(and cost) of parts is dependant on the techs available to the Empire players. Pirate players should be careful not attack other Pirate players when making their puchases at PC worlds.
Each turn in which the "common" tech levels change they will be broadcast to all via in-game message. PPS is off but these level will be roughly based on the overall current Empire tech levels.


Frontiers
The northernmost/southernmost ~100ly of the map will be Frontiers (Pirates only) East/West as well depending on planet draw(crossed fingers). "Signpost" planets will be named, said planets are NOT in the frontier. 3 PC worlds will be in the interior. The remaining 8 will be in the frontiers.
A. Empire ships accidentally entering(for whatever reason) the frontiers must immediately depart exactly N/S or E/W (or NE,NW,SE,SW) as appropriate.
B. If Empire ships do not leave immediately the turn after (A), or they destroy Pirate ships within the frontier concurrently with (A), all ships of that Empire within the frontiers must be deleted or scrapped in space. (CE could cost you more than you bargained here.)
C. All infrations will be ignored unless reported by a Pirate via email. Pirates are advised to report infractions to the Empire player concerned as well.
D. If Empire ships are not scrapped in accordance with (B) a turn will be lost - a .x file with the required action(s) will be submitted by the host. No other orders will be created and/or altered.
In short, be careful hunting near the edge, unless you're willing to lose the ships concerned.
From (D) I need mention a game rule that is a constant feature of all games I've hosted (except one). If you password your game files(arguably unnecessary now on AH), you MUST keep me informed of your current password. Failure to do so will result in your race being set to Dead/Banned until an appropiate password is forthcoming. With AH as it is, my preference is to not use a password...I don't.

I'm still sure I've forgotten something...

[Updated on: Tue, 04 April 2006 06:56]

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Kelzar wrote on Thu, 23 March 2006 11:52

Hmmm...not quite sure how this will work, just did some testing and got some interesting messages.....Pirate A, Pirate B and Pirate C all show up to theft minerals from poor unsuspecting freighter (yeah right) at the same time. You may need to test this out and declare/refine the Order of Events in regards to simultaneous mineral theft.

Fortunately, I can leave that bit the the game engine Players might be advised to do some testing tho.

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

[Updated on: Wed, 22 March 2006 21:21]

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

multilis wrote on Thu, 23 March 2006 14:19

Two winners, an empire and a pirate (who has big horde)? These two may be best buddies, no need to compete if each can win, and empire can help with pirate horde.

Its possible of course, they'd still have to worry about sharing the minerals. The empire player needs them for his own fleets & factories, and the Pirate for his hoard.

Quote:

You may run into problem of pirate orders at a requested location exceeding abillity of a single planet to produce. As well likely limitations due to slot issues, each pirate can count on only one ship design per year, with a turn delay in changing design.

Could well do yes, hopefully they'll have some common design requests to make things easier, in any case sales will be limited by the production rate of each planet.

Quote:

Avoiding combat at a PC HW if war is near may be tricky.

tricky...aka fun Though the increasing ban is probably ott


Its a work in progress, and I don't claim to have all the answers. I've also toyed with having 2 PC races and making the other an IT. I may yet put banning TDs up to a vote.

and to clarify, Empire races DO NOT have NAS, Pirate races DO have NAS. (the PC does not have NAS and thus can supply pen scanners)

[Updated on: Thu, 23 March 2006 01:38]

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Mark wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 13:32

I had a question about the pirates ships. Will they start the game with high tech level ships? Or will the tech levels for the pirates increase as the game progresses?

They'll increase as the game progresses. And the price of any given item will drop steadily as the game progresses - until it becomes commonly available(until you can buy it cheaper from your empire friend ). Except for SS specific parts - these are always treated as if the empire races have the required tech. All pirates start with "normal-price" access to the Robber Baron Scanner.

I've been thinking a bit about the prices I should charge for ships. Ramblings below. insert universal disclaimer here. your mileage may vary. game contents may not resemble image on packet. no liability accepted whatsoever, for anything, ever.

I have a forumla in mind for the costs of ships to get me started, but I'm happy to hear ideas. Whichever formula/method/etc I use won't be disclosed until the game is finished. but about price setting...

price goes down...IMO pirates should have access to better stuff than their prey...black market and all and because all armed ships in Stars! are inherently military craft, there is no civilian layer for them to prey on.

price goes up...I have few problems with pirates setting themselves up as traders selling tech to empires but the profit margin should not be so great to completely overshadow the risk of being a pirate.

price goes down...I can see the empire races hunting down any ships they suspect of having higher tech SS parts on-board(or some enterprising pirate on-selling them) so the game's tech level may increase fairly quickly.

price goes up...For most stuff pirates should be able to buy (or be given) ships(or the cash to buy ships) from their current empire "employer". I have no intention of being the sole source of pirate ships. If nothing else I won't have the production capacity to support it and the 16 designs limitation mean that some orders may take years to fulfill.

price goes down...since 1)I'm lazy and 2) the PC race will have maxtech, prices will be affected by the maximum possible (non-BET)miniaturisation. Anyone want to start selling chaff on the black market?

We'll see how things go, hopefully the formula I have in mind will be enough, as I don't really want to spend the game playing reserve bank with prices. Be assured that pirates will have access to higher tech than the empire races if they are willing to pay for it.

Report message to a moderator

[Updated on: Thu, 30 March 2006 22:23]

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Sr.Seven wrote on Fri, 31 March 2006 16:23

1) I don't think it makes much sense to prevent empire scouting of PC areas. It seems to me that after the earliest stages of the game, finding an "employer" who will guarantee safe exit is part of being a pirate.

I respectfully disagree....

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pirate

Added: ten seconds later

Just my POV, it's not my game concept.

[Updated on: Fri, 31 March 2006 16:44]

Report message to a moderator

[Updated on: Fri, 31 March 2006 17:38]

Report message to a moderator

[Updated on: Fri, 31 March 2006 19:15]

Report message to a moderator

gible wrote on Fri, 31 March 2006 00:22

Hopefully the price will prevent that, beyond a few techs ahead, they get very expensive. As I said. I don't really mind. Its to the Pirates collective advantage to keep the Empire techs low both in terms of cost and combat superiority.

Collective advantage often falls by the wayside when you seek individual advantage. Also remember that no pirate can win the game on their own... they have to wait for an empire player to win. It is to a pirate's advantage to team with an empire player as early and completely as possible, both to gain an advantage over the other pirates and give his empire buddy a big enough advantage to win quickly while said pirate is in the lead.

Quote:

Quote: As an empire, I would surround PC Homeworlds with scouts looking for cloaked pirates emerging near my territory, then track them with other scouts. Yeah, I think thats going to have to be a no-no.

I don't know. Call it neutral territory, off-limits to empire vessels. Have enough ships in place to destroy any stray spies. And if one empire gets too froggy, it's in all (other than allies, if any) the pirate's interests to slap it around a bit. Good luck getting a colony established quickly with no minerals sent to it. Hmm, what about allowing pop-stealing by the pirates? They can only be sold as slaves to the PC race, or made to walk the plank (jettisoned).

Quote:

Quote: One option is to limit access to robber barons to pirates, as well perhaps throw in some sort of limitation on friendliness between a pirate and an empire so that they don't trust each other. Not a bad idea. Perhaps go so far as to make it a king-pice. IE lose it and you're dead. For most purposes I envisage pirates could steal with a pickpocket.

I like this - my fear was that the RB would allow them to spot empire HWs right away, and then they could keep looting all the minerals from the HW and any colonies. If they've only got one RB they aren't going to be quick to risk it. And it might be a good idea to keep the RB out of circulation for the early years. Hand them out in 2415, maybe.

Quote:

Quote: Another thought, perhaps ban empires from having OBRM to increase their exposure. Not a bad idea. Is it worth limiting mines too? Not so far as -m but enough to make remote mining attractive.

I hate to say it since I like OBRM so much, but this is probably a good idea. It makes pirates a legitimate threat without making them actually deadly to an empire or having to make them into serious military powers.

As for pirates transferring tech to the empires, if an empire is so confident it can set up a deal like that let it set all its techs to expensive and see how far it gets. Please, brother, can you spare a Delta Torpedo for an old ex-leper?

There doesn't seem to be any reason for an empire to buddy up to more than one pirate - so probably you'll have five empire-pirate teams and the other five pirates forming an alliance against the favored buccaneers. Once they get rid of an empire's pirate, they may end up fighting it out to become the new buddy. I'm curious to see how the politics go in this game.

Edit: Thought of a reason to have more than one pirate friend... battleboard manipulation. Though you could achieve the same thing allying with another empire (and his pirate friend, maybe).

[Updated on: Fri, 31 March 2006 22:14]

Report message to a moderator

An Update
Empires:
Marduk
Mark
Sr Seven (99%)
Pirates (since I'm getting them)
Sergey (maybe Empire)
Yoey
EDog
Rules under serious consideration:(iow unless I'm convinced otherwise, they're going to become rules)
1)Pirate <-> Empire relationships must be set to Enemy.(only just convinced - policing is work )
2)Empire races may not choose OBRM, Joat must leave 50points to defenses(or 100 to anything). Mine settings must be worse than 10/10/10.
3)Each Pirate will be given a single ship with a RB on it. If this ship is lost the Pirate is considered to have died...all other ships will be deleted and a new pirate player will be sought. It will be allowed to purchase a better,improved kingpeice when trading in the old one.

Some replies...
Kelzar: If you are expecting Empire worlds to build pirate ships so that the full building does not fall to the PC worlds ...
I expect them to do some of the building yes. Naturally new pirates will have to reply on the PC. Others may choose to rely solely on the PC - their choice.
...make them a true 1WW...
Definately not. Pirates will be completely planetless. Also this would make it obvious where the treasure planets are and thus a target for Empires. It would also interfere with the unlimited pirate players concept.

Sr Seven: 1) I don't think it makes much sense to prevent empire scouting of PC areas...produce a navigation nightmare.
I'm not about to prevent empire scouting of PC areas. I just don't want them camping out...a reasonable amount of scouting is expected, even the occasional visit, but I don't want to see tight grids of scouts/minelayers/hunters arrayed to detect and intercept everything that moves.
place them on the North and South edges?...And pirates could keep their hoards out even the possibility of Empire capture
Not a bad idea but I'd still want to keep at least 1/3 of them in the interior, and if I created no-empire zones they'd be no-treasure planet zones too. The idea of someone accidentally colonising a pirates hoard is just too funny to leave out.

GreyMatter: 1) Prohibit Pirates from allying with Empires. (All pirates must set all Empire players to enemy)
Not a bad idea. It won't stop co-operation(I've read enough "discussion" in all-enemy threads to know that) but it would hamper co-operation in a semi-realistic way. It would have to be two way tho. Empires must set Pirates to enemy too.
2) Prohibit Empires of having more than one ally, and perhaps Empire #1 not to have any allies at all...
3) Limit possible Pirate alliances to 3 ?
I'm not even going to consider these because of the nightmare they become to police.
PC pre-designs and pre-makes some common ships and lists them as available for purchase
This I like a lot. There are 16 slots available, if I give 1 to each pirate that would leave 4-5 for standard designs and 1-2 for upgrading. Each Pirate would have their own set of 16 designs so even if they use a new deign every 2 years(1 to build, 1 to transfer) it would take 26 years to fill all the slots, by which time something must be obsolete.
Make production market driven
Its feasibly a good idea which I will keep for a later game. I'd rather not play reserve bank this game.
Also like the idea of no OBRM and limited mines for Empires
How about no OBRM and mine settings must be "worse" than 10/10/10?(double cost,normal otherwise) too much? not enough?
JoaT would also incur a 50(or100) or 100(or150) point penalty of course.

Marduk: neutral territory, off-limits to empire vessels
I'm going to leave this for now and go with the "normal" scouting zones. But I'll keep it in mind and intruduce it during the game if things don't work out(ie pirates keep dying too quickly - how quickly is too quickly? not sure...they're not expected to survive too long. Making the game last long enough for pirates to come and go may be the biggest problem/failure.
allowing pop-stealing by the pirates?
Nice idea. But it requires using version i, which AH doesn't use. It also has other bugs I'd rather live without.
[re kingpiece] RB...spot empire HWs right away...looting all the minerals from the HW and any colonies...Hand them out in 2415, maybe.
If they're kingpeices(and that's my current inclination) they'll be handed out from day 1 regardless. Tho I might(unlikely) make them *very* expensive.
I'm curious to see how the politics go in this game.
So am I. I think its going to be the deciding factor in whether or not the game concept "works".

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator