Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » New item for the known bugs / features list
| Re: New item for the known bugs / features list |
Wed, 12 April 2006 04:11   |
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 m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 00:03 |
Minefields isn't a worry as your speed for collision checks is treated as the minimum necessary to cover the distance travelled.
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But minefields are a big worry unless you don't mind losing all your chaff/bombers/freighters to a mine hit. 
Also, let's examine a very probable scenario for this bug, already mentioned elsewhere:
Your caring neighborhood SS has just managed to slip his 98% cloaked @ss-whomping uber-fleet to within a couple dozen ly from your well-defended gating point, and his nubian minesweepers are cleansing your minefields all over the place. He then decides to bait/ambush your expensive interceptors by sending all his sweepers to rendez-vous with his nearby main fleet. Not knowing about the trap you send your interceptors at max speed, and, as he has no reason to spend more fuel than strictly necessary, WHAP, all his interceptors fail to move and die.   
Now who's gonna tell the SS he shouldn't have targeted his own main fleet to avoid this bug?  
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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| Re: New item for the known bugs / features list |
Sun, 16 April 2006 15:57 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| Micha wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 10:28 |
| Quote: |
... , as he has no reason to spend more fuel than strictly necessary, WHAP, all his interceptors fail to move and die.
Now who's gonna tell the SS he shouldn't have targeted his own main fleet to avoid this bug?
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That was more or less the scenario that happened to my ally (as referred to in my reply to Mazda)
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Well, I've tried to reproduce that one in my testbeds, but so far, no bug was triggered when the main fleet was in open space. 
| Quote: |
it still needs to be tested if the bug occurs if the main fleet was moving ... and if it would be "fixed" if the deepspace coordinates were targetted instead ...
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Some results:
- Deep space coordinates avert the bug, as expected.
- Main fleet moving from planet to space doesn't change the bug. When other conditions apply, it happens regardless of main fleet movement.  
- Relative fleet/player IDs seem not to matter.
- Guarantee of interception doesn't seem to guarantee the bug. 
- Apparently, planets matter. If the main fleet is not orbiting a planet, the bug fails to show up.
It all needs still more testing under yet more diverse and controlled conditions. Results seem promising, tho. 
Last but not least, I've failed to reproduce the "undershoot" bug.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New item for the known bugs / features list |
Sun, 16 April 2006 17:34 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 21:57 |
| Micha wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 10:28 |
| Quote: |
... , as he has no reason to spend more fuel than strictly necessary, WHAP, all his interceptors fail to move and die.
Now who's gonna tell the SS he shouldn't have targeted his own main fleet to avoid this bug?
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That was more or less the scenario that happened to my ally (as referred to in my reply to Mazda)
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Well, I've tried to reproduce that one in my testbeds, but so far, no bug was triggered when the main fleet was in open space.
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I looked up the turn file where my ally got hit by the bug.
2 situations:
1) Fleets #106, #3 and #30 are targetting fleet #107, all at warp9, they have to travel almost 81ly. Fleet #107 is moving from deepspace to deepspace, also warp9, also 81ly. All 4 fleets are at 1ly from interceptors.
Result:
Fleet #106 arrives at the rendez-vous point with fleet #107. It is unsure but possible that fleet #106 was targetted ... if it was it would/could be by ships going warp5. Same goes for #107 ...
Fleets #3 and #30 are targetted and intercepted before they move (IOW bug). Interceptors were going warp8 = NO "guarantee of interception".
2) Fleet #111 is targetting fleet #64 (in orbit of a planet, not moving). Fleet #111 is moving at warp9, has to travell 81ly, 4ly from interceptor.
Result:
Fleet #111 is targetted and intercepted before it moves by enemy at warp10 = "guarantee of interception".
| m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 21:57 |
| Quote: |
it still needs to be tested if the bug occurs if the main fleet was moving ... and if it would be "fixed" if the deepspace coordinates were targetted instead ...
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Some results:
- Deep space coordinates avert the bug, as expected.
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So the bug only pops up when the interceptees are targetting a fleet. This is good, it provides at least "some" fix.
| Quote: |
- Main fleet moving from planet to space doesn't change the bug. When other conditions apply, it happens regardless of main fleet movement.
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IOW, if main fleet is moving the bug still kicks in. This is bad. Means more MM since you can't target fleet and have to always use coordinates.
| Quote: |
- Relative fleet/player IDs seem not to matter.
- Guarantee of interception doesn't seem to guarantee the bug.
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Right ... as in the above real game situation 1. Maybe because the main fleet was moving as well (non-stationary target of the target doing something)? Or because it wasn't at a planet but deepspace?
| Quote: |
- Apparently, planets matter. If the main fleet is not orbiting a planet, the bug fails to show up.
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Well, in situation 1 there were no planets involved, main fleet was deepspace, it was even moving, and not to a planet ...
mch
...
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| Re: New item for the known bugs / features list |
Mon, 17 April 2006 04:54 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| Micha wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 23:34 |
| Quote: |
I've tried to reproduce that one in my testbeds, but so far, no bug was triggered when the main fleet was in open space.
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I looked up the turn file where my ally got hit by the bug.
2 situations:
1) Fleets #106, #3 and #30 are targetting fleet #107, all at warp9, they have to travel almost 81ly. Fleet #107 is moving from deepspace to deepspace, also warp9, also 81ly. All 4 fleets are at 1ly from interceptors.
Result:
Fleet #106 arrives at the rendez-vous point with fleet #107. It is unsure but possible that fleet #106 was targetted ... if it was it would/could be by ships going warp5. Same goes for #107 ...
Fleets #3 and #30 are targetted and intercepted before they move (IOW bug). Interceptors were going warp8 = NO "guarantee of interception".
2) Fleet #111 is targetting fleet #64 (in orbit of a planet, not moving). Fleet #111 is moving at warp9, has to travell 81ly, 4ly from interceptor.
Result:
Fleet #111 is targetted and intercepted before it moves by enemy at warp10 = "guarantee of interception".
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Fascinating. Are you sure the "stuck" bug didn't trip fleet #107? 
Perhaps this additional info will help me design a new series of tests... I sure hope it is still the same bug.
| Quote: |
So the bug only pops up when the interceptees are targetting a fleet. This is good, it provides at least "some" fix.
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Yep. At least when you know where your main fleet is going. I have yet to test what happens when your main fleet is targeting another fleet.
| Quote: |
IOW, if main fleet is moving the bug still kicks in. This is bad. Means more MM since you can't target fleet and have to always use coordinates.
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Yup. I used to do that a lot when the "stuck" bug was still an unknown factor. If memory serves, only a few fleets per turn need such "extreme" measures.
| Quote: |
as in the above real game situation 1. Maybe because the main fleet was moving as well (non-stationary target of the target doing something)? Or because it wasn't at a planet but deepspace?
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Who knows. There might be additional factors, included some combo of player/fleet Id.
| Quote: |
Well, in situation 1 there were no planets involved, main fleet was deepspace, it was even moving, and not to a planet ...
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Definitely more tests are needed.
...
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New item for the known bugs / features list |
Mon, 17 April 2006 09:21 |
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| Micha |
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 10:54 |
| Micha wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 23:34 |
| Quote: |
I've tried to reproduce that one in my testbeds, but so far, no bug was triggered when the main fleet was in open space.
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I looked up the turn file where my ally got hit by the bug.
2 situations:
1) Fleets #106, #3 and #30 are targetting fleet #107, all at warp9, they have to travel almost 81ly. Fleet #107 is moving from deepspace to deepspace, also warp9, also 81ly. All 4 fleets are at 1ly from interceptors.
Result:
Fleet #106 arrives at the rendez-vous point with fleet #107. It is unsure but possible that fleet #106 was targetted ... if it was it would/could be by ships going warp5. Same goes for #107 ...
Fleets #3 and #30 are targetted and intercepted before they move (IOW bug). Interceptors were going warp8 = NO "guarantee of interception".
2) Fleet #111 is targetting fleet #64 (in orbit of a planet, not moving). Fleet #111 is moving at warp9, has to travell 81ly, 4ly from interceptor.
Result:
Fleet #111 is targetted and intercepted before it moves by enemy at warp10 = "guarantee of interception".
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Fascinating. Are you sure the "stuck" bug didn't trip fleet #107?
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Fleet #107 moved to it's deepspace coordinates as it should. It was not targetting any other fleets.
The "stuck" bug affects the "middle" fleet with fleets targetting fleets targetting fleets. In this case only one fleet was targetted by multiple fleets.
mch
{Mod edit: fixed quote}
[Updated on: Mon, 21 August 2006 04:14] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New item for the known bugs / features list |
Tue, 18 April 2006 22:50 |
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| Quote: |
We're talking about the speed of the target ships. They know where they are ending up (without the bug of course) and if there are minefields in their path it won't matter if they go warp5 or warp10, the lowest speed needed is checked against the minefields.
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Micha,
Have you tried to verify if there is any difference depending on player number? I'll take a look myself since it may have a bearing.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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