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New space dock design wanted Wed, 01 March 2006 10:59 Go to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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Anyone want to suggest a new design for the space dock to fix the armour overload bug by splitting the single armour slot into multiple slots?

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Re: New space dock design wanted Wed, 01 March 2006 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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Well, if it's possible, you could just tack another armour slot on (visually coming off the existing one,) then halve the capacity of both the slots.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Thu, 02 March 2006 06:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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I guess there are 2 parts to a potential new design:

1) Not changing the function too much. e.g. whether what is the max slot size before the overflow and whether it should be 2 slots, 1 max other balance; or 2 slots of 12 each.

2) Visual appeal. Sticking a slot out is a bit ugly Smile

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Re: New space dock design wanted Sat, 04 March 2006 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rowenstin is currently offline rowenstin

 
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What bug is that? Never heard of armour overload.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Sun, 05 March 2006 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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rowenstin wrote on Sun, 05 March 2006 04:41

What bug is that? Never heard of armour overload.

Check the Stars! Must Know section, read the Known Bugs (JRC3). It's the third last one,

mch


[Updated on: Sun, 05 March 2006 10:38]

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Re: New space dock design wanted Tue, 07 March 2006 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PricklyPea wrote on Wed, 01 March 2006 16:59

Anyone want to suggest a new design for the space dock to fix the armour overload bug by splitting the single armour slot into multiple slots?


Perhaps it would be possible to fix the faulty "signed div by 2" math which causes the bug itself? Sherlock

If that would not be possible, then I see two main options:

Original Space Dock set up, where numbers mean slot definition order, "#" means cargo space and "2" is the 24-shield/armor slot:
   11
 001155
 00  55
22 ## 33
22 ## 33
 77  66
 774466
   44

1) Space Dock with a second shield/armor slot, "a", with both "2" and "a" holding up to 12 items.
  11aa
0011aa55
00    55
22 ## 33
22 ## 33
 77  66
 774466
   44

2) Space Dock with 2 extra shield/armor slots, "a" and "b", with all 3 shield/armor slots holding up to 8 items, and some slot repositioning.
  11aa
0011aa55
00    55
22 ## 33
22 ## 33
77    66
7744bb66
  44bb

AllItemsTable code:
16,2,"Space Dock 2",33,0,0,0,4,0,0,0,200,40,10,50,132,200,0,250,2560,1,4 8,16,12,8,48,16,4,24,2048,2,2048,2,48,16,12,8,12,8,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,10,140,0,102,68,33,19,65,71,115,39,103,97,21, 117,0,0,0,0,0,0

Alternative repositioning for option (2), including repositioning the "cargo" slot:
   11aa
 0011aa55
 00    55
22  ##  33
22  ##  33
 77    66
 7744bb66
   44bb

AllItemsTable code:
16,2,"Space Dock 3",33,0,0,0,4,0,0,0,200,40,10,50,132,200,0,250,2560,1,4 8,16,12,8,48,16,4,24,2048,2,2048,2,48,16,12,8,12,8,0,0,0,0,0 ,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,10,140,0,102,68,33,19,64,72,115,39,103,97,21, 117,0,0,0,0,0,0

2 extra slots would give increased freedom for designing those deadly Space Docks, mind. Wink

{Edit: fixed slightly misaligned "SpaceDock 3" code}


[Updated on: Fri, 17 March 2006 05:43]




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Re: New space dock design wanted Tue, 07 March 2006 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PricklyPea wrote on Thu, 02 March 2006 12:23

I guess there are 2 parts to a potential new design:

1) Not changing the function too much. e.g. whether what is the max slot size before the overflow and whether it should be 2 slots, 1 max other balance; or 2 slots of 12 each.

2) Visual appeal. Sticking a slot out is a bit ugly Smile


3) The AIs should be able to use the new design. Shocked



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Re: New space dock design wanted Tue, 07 March 2006 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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Other possible option is to have 1x4 electronics instead of 2x2. Quite rare case when you want to have various different electronic devices on a dock.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Tue, 07 March 2006 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
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Kotk wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 14:45

Other possible option is to have 1x4 electronics instead of 2x2. Quite rare case when you want to have various different electronic devices on a dock.


Perhaps you want two computers and two cloaks, or two computers and two capacitors, for a dock with torpedoes on it? Seems like it could be rather useful early on, before missle ships come in to the game.

I personally think that just making the dock "Q"-shaped would suffice.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Wed, 08 March 2006 04:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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crr65536 wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 23:11

Kotk wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 14:45

Other possible option is to have 1x4 electronics instead of 2x2. Quite rare case when you want to have various different electronic devices on a dock.


Perhaps you want two computers and two cloaks, or two computers and two capacitors, for a dock with torpedoes on it? Seems like it could be rather useful early on, before missle ships come in to the game.

I personally think that just making the dock "Q"-shaped would suffice.



"Q"? You mean as in Option (1) with only one extra armor slot?



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Re: New space dock design wanted Wed, 08 March 2006 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
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Yes, with the armor coming off the existing armor slot. No need to remove functionality (by combining other slots) just to fix the bug.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Thu, 09 March 2006 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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crr65536 wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 17:04

Yes, with the armor coming off the existing armor slot. No need to remove functionality (by combining other slots) just to fix the bug.


You sure you want to have it assymmetrical? Shocked I'd rather the original bug was solved. Shouldn't be too hard if you know what bits of code to fiddle. Sherlock



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Re: New space dock design wanted Fri, 10 March 2006 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 19:06

You sure you want to have it assymmetrical? Shocked I'd rather the original bug was solved. Shouldn't be too hard if you know what bits of code to fiddle. Sherlock


The probable problem is 16 bit integers and 16 bit arithmetics used somewhere in RS calculations where bigger should be used. Probable, because Stars! is 16 bit program. 32767 is 16 bit signed integer maximum. Superlatanium x 24 is 36000. So overflow and... bug!
Common solution to get rid of overflow is to increase the storage that did overflow. It likely involves adding new bytes where no one deliberately left unused room. Not too hard? Rolling Eyes Very Happy

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Re: New space dock design wanted Fri, 10 March 2006 07:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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It may well be possible to fix the bug, but it is surely easier to modify the space dock hull Very Happy

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Re: New space dock design wanted Sat, 11 March 2006 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PricklyPea wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 13:14

It may well be possible to fix the bug, but it is surely easier to modify the space dock hull Very Happy


Awww, c'mon... There should be a nice call to the "signed integer div" function somewhere that can be turned into a call to the correct "unsigned integer div" function. Sherlock

Think about the consequences: a genuine fix under your belt versus a genuinely weird spacedock shape. Razz



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Re: New space dock design wanted Sat, 11 March 2006 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Sat, 11 March 2006 11:51


Awww, c'mon... There should be a nice call to the "signed integer div" function somewhere that can be turned into a call to the correct "unsigned integer div" function. Sherlock

These are two machine code instructions Rolling Eyes
DIV Unsigned divide
IDIV Signed divide
You sure you dont want to learn to hack yourself? Laughing


[Updated on: Sat, 11 March 2006 17:18]

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Re: New space dock design wanted Sun, 12 March 2006 04:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Kotk wrote on Sat, 11 March 2006 23:14

m.a@stars wrote on Sat, 11 March 2006 11:51


Awww, c'mon... There should be a nice call to the "signed integer div" function somewhere that can be turned into a call to the correct "unsigned integer div" function. Sherlock

These are two machine code instructions Rolling Eyes
DIV Unsigned divide
IDIV Signed divide
You sure you dont want to learn to hack yourself? Laughing


But I'm not intimate with the EXE structure as others here are. Wink

Are U sure these are what the Jeffs used? Sherlock



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Re: New space dock design wanted Sun, 12 March 2006 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 12 March 2006 11:33

Are U sure these are what the Jeffs used? Sherlock

I am never sure in the sense that the truth is pure 100%. To search these 8 bytes out from 4 megabytes would probably take weekend or couple. So ... the likelihood that DIV is used is ~90%. Likelihood something else is used is 10%. Likelihood of function named signed_integer_div is 0%. Not sure but good enough for me. Wink

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Re: New space dock design wanted Mon, 13 March 2006 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Kotk wrote on Sun, 12 March 2006 14:11

the likelihood that DIV is used is ~90%. Likelihood something else is used is 10%. Likelihood of function named signed_integer_div is 0%. Not sure but good enough for me. Wink


I'm afraid you'll be right. Locating that hypotethical function call would have been far easier... Sherlock



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In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: New space dock design wanted Thu, 16 March 2006 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
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OK - After everybody's had their say, here is what I'd simply do - redesign with 3 armor slots.

So, here's a nice symmetrical design with 3 armor slots of 8 units each:
                  W   SA  
             OE  16    8   E
              1            2 

             SA     SD     W  
              8    200kt   16

              W            E  
             16   S   SA   2    
                 24    8


The items should be self explanatory but, just in case:
SA= Shield/Armor
S= Shield
OE= Orbital/Electrical
E= Electrical
W= Weapons
SD= Space Dock

This is easy enough to modify with StarsEd and provides the exact same space dock functionality while being visually symmetrical.

Ptolemy




[Updated on: Thu, 16 March 2006 05:19]





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Re: New space dock design wanted Thu, 16 March 2006 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Ptolemy wrote on Thu, 16 March 2006 08:11

OK - After everybody's had their say, here is what I'd simply do - redesign with 3 armor slots.

So, here's a nice symmetrical design with 3 armor slots of 8 units each:
                  W    A  
             OE  16    8   E
              1            2 

              A     SD     W  
              8    200kt   16

              W            E  
             16   S    A   2    
                 24    8




Well, I'm glad you liked my (2) option above and have taken the time to post an explanation to it for those who cannot use the AllItemsTable string I supplied. Nod

One minor nitpick, tho: Those "Armor8" slots should actually be "Shield/Armor8" slots. Wink



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In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: New space dock design wanted Thu, 16 March 2006 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
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Yes, you are correct - modification to the above layout - all 'A 8' spots are actually 'S A' slots - Shield/Armor. Design has been updated.

I actually used an original post with nice boxes but, the forum screwed it up. I kind of forgot that AH is a Linux (or Unix) box and isn't using the IBM graphic characters Rolling Eyes Oh well.

Ptolemy




Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Fri, 17 March 2006 05:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Ptolemy wrote on Thu, 16 March 2006 11:18

I actually used an original post with nice boxes but, the forum screwed it up. I kind of forgot that AH is a Linux (or Unix) box and isn't using the IBM graphic characters Rolling Eyes Oh well.


Don't tell me. I'm still trying to find a way to display reasonably-aligned square boxes in plain html for my "all-items data-dumper & hull-displayer". Sad Evil or Very Mad Wall Bash Hit Computer



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Re: New space dock design wanted Fri, 17 March 2006 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
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Well, you could use boxes like this:

    -------------
   |             |
   |             |
   |             |
   |             |
    -------------  


Not very elegant I know.......

Ptolemy


[Updated on: Fri, 17 March 2006 12:31]





Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: New space dock design wanted Fri, 17 March 2006 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Ptolemy wrote on Fri, 17 March 2006 18:30

Well, you could use boxes like this:

    -------------
   |             |
   |             |
   |             |
   |             |
    -------------  


Not very elegant I know.......



Yuck Yuck I'd rather keep my html table splicing for the time being. Wink



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In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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