Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Long Range Warfare
| Long Range Warfare |
Fri, 10 February 2006 16:02  |
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Ok, so I'm playing in my first large galaxy game, and I've run into a little problem.
My nieghbour to the north is a most vexing PP, and I'd really like to go over there and crush him, but he's just too far away. There are almost 300ly of mine-filled noman's land inbetween us, and I've only got 100/250 gates. It'd take 12-15 years to planet hop that far, and he's got scouts on every world anyway.
I can't think of a good way to lead an attack that won't be seen coming. I also can't think of a way not to hugely over extend myself.
Any suggestions, or articles that might help me figure out a way?
Details:
I am a HP SD, I have a HP WM as an ally. The PP is a more advanced player than I and my allies. Myself and the PP have a very thick line of minefields complete with skirmishers (5DD's with collodial, plus occasional collodial and jihad CC's). We've both got a few border gates, but as stated they are very light weight.
We both do have access to IT freindlies, but they don't seem to be capable of doing anything quickly, and they have not played a roll as of yet.
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Fri, 10 February 2006 17:30  |
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I've never play SD myself, but I've played against them enough to know that exploding minefields are scary. Combine this with layer fleets that don't follow predictable patterns(except that they're never quite within reach when they're unprotected) and you have an MM nightmare to fight. So I'd suggest using multiple largish layer fleets and some planet hidden escort fleets to push your way across the divide. Your Heavy and Speed-trap minefields will be unaffected, and by laying exploding fields just large enough to envelope planets as you advance should kill off the scout spies and any chaff. You'll need to be sure that your own ships are not caught in the explosion as well.
Edit: OTOH If you use a lot of smaller fleets across a wide front, this can be used to keep your enemy on edge for years, he'll never quite know where an attack is coming from because everywhere is always under assault and the unpredictable patterns of the layers means the thin red line of safety is constantly moving. Perhaps combine this with 2-3 groups of large layer fleets that advance and retreat in random places along the line and good use of chaff sweeping and your actual attack may go unnoticed until you'll destroyed something important.
[Updated on: Fri, 10 February 2006 17:36] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Sat, 11 February 2006 00:59 |
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You're HP so you given time are strong (provided you grabbed a good share of territory), but can't set up border colony/gates as quick.
You need freighters/colony ship over your border colonies so you can pull up pop and recolonize to defend against packet attacks.
| Quote: |
It'd take 12-15 years to planet hop that far
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you should be able to move way faster than that, suggest 5-6 years to get across if wanted from start provided you have enough ships. You prep your forces, gate them near border and get to work, he will see you work. You knock down lots of minefields, so he can't tell where you will actually strike.
As SD you can travel 2 warp levels faster than normal with no danger of hitting minefield. Warp 7/8 are possible with crash sweeping playing good game of leapfrog / random splitting / retreating / defending with jihads. If retreating damaged destroyers merge into a stationary fuel export fleet they will repair same turn.
All your minelayer types are potentially useful tools, the speedtraps stop almost everything and the heavies are fear. Small heavy minefields that your destroyers MIGHT retreat into will scare enemy ships wanting to pursue at high warp. Heavies are lightest which means easiest to hide with an overcloaker.
Dreadnaught, galleon or battlecruiser can be used as overcloaker to hide SOME of your ships when combined with planet hopping. Goal is to hide some rather than all so he doesn't know exactly what to expect.
You have one of the best combos (SD+WM) of specialty ships for a border war, matter of good micromanagement to pull it off well.
[Updated on: Sat, 11 February 2006 01:03] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Sat, 11 February 2006 04:43 |
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 iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| quatch wrote on Fri, 10 February 2006 22:02 |
There are almost 300ly of mine-filled noman's land inbetween us, and I've only got 100/250 gates. It'd take 12-15 years to planet hop that far, and he's got scouts on every world anyway.
...
I am a HP SD, I have a HP WM as an ally.
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Both of your races are considered a warfighting ones, but your econ's aren't. Regarding the described tech and you being HP I wouldn't recommend going to war yet. I'd say the game is around turn 50 and your HP econ hasn't "kicked in", so you better grow for next 10-20 turns, max your core planets, and just skirmish him. Being behind a wall of SD minefields you can afford even more time.
Start sweeping his minefields, destroying his scouts (eyes), lay a detonating minefield over every planet in no-man's land to prevent him sending another scout, fill space between planets with heavy minefields, to prevent him moving in reinforcements. Don't lay too many MFs or you'll run out or free "slots" for them (512 MF limit). His costs of sweeping are more than twice of yours, so use that extensively. Your WM ally should try to destroy PP's border colonies and repair/refuell points in no-man's land, so he will need to weithdraw his damaged ships for repair to his core worlds, or lose them. Either way you'll gain free space to move closer to him, when you'll be ready to attack. Remember to coordinate movement of WM's ships in your detonating minefields each turn, to avoid damage to him.
I doubt everything will go as planned (PP being stronger player as you both are), but you'll have a really interesting game and learn a lot of stuff.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Sat, 11 February 2006 04:46] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Sat, 11 February 2006 11:11 |
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PRT wise, WM is at strongest during dreadnaught era, and both SD and WM become weaker in nubian era (Nubs more resistant to minefields).
PP is weaker ecconomically than SD or WM, PP big era is having tech to throw warp 16 packets at gates/border colonies. Useful to know if PP is OBRM or not.
War wise, either you end it quickly (which is hard with 300 ly gap) or you aim to spend much less ecconically than your enemy and wear him down.
Sending a big fleet that the enemy only has to respond to 5+ turns later with a counterdesign that makes you run away means he spends less, is bad. You instead want to force him to fight where he is weak and trick him using cloakers to hide some forces so he loses battles.
SD is better at spread out border conflicts than single big fleet attacks.
[Updated on: Sat, 11 February 2006 11:29] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Sat, 11 February 2006 12:52 |
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Nice guess!
We're a little later than 2450, but not much and we've been rather slow at it.
Sounds like good advice.
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Sun, 12 February 2006 14:38 |
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| Sr.Seven |
 | Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 67
Registered: January 2006 | |
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| quatch wrote on Fri, 10 February 2006 16:02 |
Ok, so
My nieghbour to the north is a most vexing PP, and I'd really like to go over there and crush him,
I am a HP SD, I have a HP WM as an ally.
The PP is a more advanced player than I and my allies.
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There are a few points that should be made here.
- You and your ally have chosen (at great expense in the race wiz) HP economies (presumably 1/2500 15/<9/20+ box). . . These economies don't really hit their stride until after 2460, and in some cases until after 2470. WHAT in the name of GOD would POSSESS YOU to start a war before then? Self defense for sure, but you don't really want to attempt heavy building until later.
- Presumably your PP opponent is a HG or -F (~1/1000 with or without facts) variant (if he is indeed vexing) and really WANTS to go to war with you sooner than not. PP economies are generally poorer than other economies of the same type, so if he is advanced and has an edge, he should want to exploit it.
- Your vexing PP would probably rather fight the WM. WM is the natural target of PP. Does your WM friend share a border with the PP?
- In order to use packets as weapons, PP more than any other need SPACE and Planets so that they can get minerals. SD are the best, during all phases of the game, at controlling space. all other things being equal, you should be at an advantage here.
- Do you really trust your WM friend? WMs have more problems than others fighting SD (as they CAN'T control space and so MUST control orbits). Your WM friend may just be waiting for the opportunity to backstab you without having to skirmish and clear your minefields (IE via gates).
You SHOULD be skirmishing with the PP. You should be looking to control ALL of the space between your inhabited worlds and his. This is what your PRT does best.
Normal skirmishing (between JoaTs and ITs for example) for space control works on a 2 year cycle. Escorted minelayers arrive the first year in space they wish to claim. Interceptors or armed skirmishers then try to block the mine laying either by killing the layers, or by moving into sweeping positions 1 ly from the layer. All fo this happens in concert with screens of interceptor/sweepers that take care of the initial clearing.
SD skirmishing is different. You can lay your mines on the same year you arrive. You don't have to protect your layers in the same way. Your skirmishers clear, your layers dart in and lay on the next turn, and move again the following turn leaving mines behind. And not just any mines.
The only way your opponents can kill your layers is to set intercept orders before they are in a position to lay. Your decisions about where to move each turn can drag interceptors into detonating standard mines, into heavy or speed trap mines, or in fact anywhere at all. His skirmishers will take damage frequently and have to pull back for repair.
If done correctly, an SD should be able to skirmish successfully for as little as 1/3 the resources and minerals. If you succeed, you can kill him at your leisure later. If you succeed, he won't have the minerals to pound you with packets. Don't fail.
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Wed, 15 February 2006 13:53 |
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You are right in that my WM and I are still on our ramp-up, and that the PP may not be. Both of us have more space than the PP, and we all share borders.
The reason I've gone to 'war' with the PP is that this one doesn't do diplomacy.. Its either war or let him get penscans of my space without bieng able to do the same to him.
My war is currently just skirmishing, but I want to have a good idea of what to do to break out of that when I feel it is advantageous.
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Wed, 15 February 2006 14:59 |
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| vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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| quatch wrote on Wed, 15 February 2006 10:53 |
SNIP
The reason I've gone to 'war' with the PP is that this one doesn't do diplomacy.. Its either war or let him get penscans of my space without bieng able to do the same to him.
SNIP
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Dude, you are SD, lay MFs and detonate on his penscans. You are in far better position than the PP to keep recon vessels out of your space.
Also, in my experience most people don't think of destroying intrusive recon vessels as war, that is to say that most players will simply accept such destruction and not use it as a cassus belli unless they are simply looking for justification.
[Updated on: Wed, 15 February 2006 15:01] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Long Range Warfare |
Thu, 16 February 2006 00:47 |
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| Sr.Seven |
| Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 67
Registered: January 2006 | |
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The scanning doesn't change the economic realities of your situation. If you have a couple of spare freighters that you can use as chasers then use them, but otherwise, you need the resources for your economy or for tech.
Penscans or no, your best plan is to hang back, lay lots of mines, build that economy, and wait. Those penscans cost him 70kt per. Even if only boranium, that adds up to fewer BB and Nubians later.
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