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Let´s see if I understood well... Sun, 29 January 2006 05:05 Go to next message
rowenstin is currently offline rowenstin

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 38
Registered: December 2005
...About the different builds of races. I think I have a good grasp on them, but sometimes I don´t quite know. So, to summarize, and forgetting oddball primary traits:

- Hyper producer: Sucks race wizard points from colonists productivity (and sometimes growth and habitability) to improve factory amd mine settings. Plan is to maximize per world production (frequently 4000+ resources/perfect planet), at the cost of being very vulnerable in the earlier stages.

- Factoryless: Forgets factory seetings to improve habitability and growth. Plan is to maximize early research and ship production and catching their neighbours with their pants down, at the cost of needing a larger empire of little worlds.

- Hyper growth (or was it quickstart?): Balances growth and resource production. Plan is to maximize resources at an early stage (year 40-50 or so?) and become an unstoppable monster in the middle game. Dowside is that it´s a lot easier to think than to do: it requires a extremely careful planning to reach it´s goal.

Did I get it right? s there any differences between HG and QS?

Also, after being playing a tri immune HE in my first game, I´m thinking I´ll go for something faster next time, so I´m thinking on a -f race. I´m doubting between CA and JOAT. Wich one does better as -f? I know you´ll say CA, but JOAT has a lot of other little advantages too, and seems easier to play.


[Updated on: Sun, 29 January 2006 05:09]

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Sun, 29 January 2006 07:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Quote:

so I´m thinking on a -f race. I´m doubting between CA and JOAT.

Some -f favorites are IT, SD, IS. IT can move the pop (and warships) quickly through gates. SD can be nasty with minelayers before others catch up well enough to sweep, then can fight even with less resources than average. IS gets nearly double production eventually per planet due to orgy, and growth in transit helps compensate for being spread out.

CA is always strong if not banned or handicapped. JOAT is nice too, though -f already has extra free resources in beginning to spend on scouts and tech research (so some JOAT bonuses aren't as useful as normal).

Quote:

any differences between HG and QS?
Quick start means more focus than HG on starting quick at sacrifice to long term strength. Some choices favor the early bird, QS takes more of these. LRT examples: IFE or/and ISB for quick spreading, NAS for early scans and points, NRSE for points. Production: cheaper but less factories; more mines but less efficient. Pop growth rate higher, a 1i race will have better (=faster growth) but fewer greens than a no immunities race.

There are different ways to reach the same goal, for example in my first game which forced everyone to be +f (max factory settings), Dogthinker went lower pop growth (something like 14%) but much cheaper factories to give himself some quick start boost.

On opposite end, in my last game Micha favored good mine settings at price of slower start as likely plan of overwhelming later with extra missile boats.


[Updated on: Sun, 29 January 2006 07:32]

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Sun, 29 January 2006 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
rowenstin wrote on Sun, 29 January 2006 11:05

...About the different builds of races.
...
Did I get it right? Is there any differences between HG and QS?

Your understanding of different econ models is very good. I'd just correct you in the HG part: those are IMO the easiest to play, as they successfully combine early resources from pop (like -f) with later resources from factories (like HP). AFAIK most of races I've met in games fell in that category.
The main difference between HG and QS is QS have HP factories for even more speed (for an early kill or two), but they pay for that with significantly lower hab. So on long term they have less potential. I wouldn't recommend using them in larger or non-crowded games.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Thu, 02 February 2006 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigdave is currently offline bigdave

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 22
Registered: December 2003
Location: London
Hyper growth are the most resilient to actual play as factoryless races can get shut out very suddenly when they lose the edge at all and hyper producers start very slow and cannot really rebuild worlds that are bombed / packeted destroying most factories. Its hard for there to be a total disaster with hypergrowth.
So far anyway..

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Thu, 02 February 2006 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Quote:

Hyper growth are the most resilient


I think matter of preference that goes with player style and game type.

HG can be a disaster if -f strikes early or HP manages to get to end game strong. HG tends to spend much resources into factories early, while -f can sneak up the weapons tech and build a fleet for an early kill.




[Updated on: Thu, 02 February 2006 18:14]

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Sun, 12 February 2006 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zoiker is currently offline Zoiker

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 59
Registered: January 2006
multilis wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 18:13

Quote:

Hyper growth are the most resilient


I think matter of preference that goes with player style and game type.

HG can be a disaster if -f strikes early or HP manages to get to end game strong. HG tends to spend much resources into factories early, while -f can sneak up the weapons tech and build a fleet for an early kill.





While early tech is helpful, I find the main advantage of a -f race is the vast amount of minerals available for building early beamers. Even in the early mid-game when folks are trying to build jihads cruisers, a -f can build a much, Much larger fleet of beamer cruisers or IS croby sharmor frigates.

My 0.02 cents.

Cheers,
Zoiker

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Mon, 13 February 2006 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Zoiker wrote on Mon, 13 February 2006 05:07

Even in the early mid-game when folks are trying to build jihads cruisers, a -f can build a much, Much larger fleet of beamer cruisers or IS croby sharmor frigates.

First, its not "early midgame". Jihad cruisers like beamer cruisers and croby frigates are early game ship. Some breeders beside HW are up so you build such crap from there. Its the end of initial colonization stage. Fleet ~10 years earlier than that? "Midgame" starts with BB. BB makes Jihad cruiser quite obsolete and teethless. Nod

Second, these are not some anonymous "folks" there. Jihad cruiser is heavy ship, it cannot be gated with 100/250 gate. Rolling Eyes If someone builds it then he is (A):stupid or (B):IT race with oo/300 gates. Very Happy

Third, they are probably not "trying". If IT wastes iron into a Jihad cruiser (that has only ~20 years lifespan before Jugger BB) then he is very sure that such a cruiser aids to kill whoever he kills a bit quicker. He got LF for spreading his iron so he can use every last drop of iron he has. Thats certainly not "trying". Laughing

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Mon, 13 February 2006 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zoiker is currently offline Zoiker

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 59
Registered: January 2006
Quote:

First, its not "early midgame". Jihad cruisers like beamer cruisers and croby frigates are early game ship


Most of the games I play in end while the BB is the mainline warship. I suppose if it takes you longer to win then Jihads cruisers would be considered early game. Cool

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Mon, 13 February 2006 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Zoiker wrote on Mon, 13 February 2006 19:51

Quote:

First, its not "early midgame". Jihad cruisers like beamer cruisers and croby frigates are early game ship

Most of the games I play in end while the BB is the mainline warship. I suppose if it takes you longer to win then Jihads cruisers would be considered early game. Cool

Who cares when game ends for you? Laughing I understood we argue about if cruiser is early or middle game ship? Confused The very first fleet of a 1WW consists of cruisers or battlecruisers. Cool So for me it is early game ship. Why to call the time when single planet race builds his first fleet "a midgame". Rolling Eyes

Btw if the topic is not so "passionate" then why to reply. Just that terms like early, mid and late game are older than some stars players. Wink


[Updated on: Mon, 13 February 2006 14:50]

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Mon, 13 February 2006 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zoiker is currently offline Zoiker

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 59
Registered: January 2006
Quote:

The very first fleet of a 1WW consists of cruisers or battlecruisers


I had no idea this was such a passionate topic! I think we can agree to disagree on this one, but I would be curious to hear what others think of what constitutes early game versus midgame.

For me, expansion along with skirmishing is early game. Once expansion has ended and 'fleets' (warships & bombers) start to be built is what I consider midgame.

And for the sake of clarity, I'm not speaking about 1WWs here; I'm talking about normal games.

Cheers,
Zoiker

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Re: Let´s see if I understood well... Mon, 13 February 2006 16:25 Go to previous message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
I have seen attacks by beta torp destroyers and early bombers to early strike suprise enemy HW.

IMO delta torp destroyers are a useful level for suprise attack and can be gated 100/250. -f can reach con 5, prop 5, weapons 10 before HG is really thinking about weapons or defences, IT, WM, and JOAT PRTs have head start for these techs.

IMO jihad cruisers do not go obsolete till you run out of slots, they are gatable, riskable, nice minelayer/minesweeper random protectors. A few suicide sappers combined with jihad cruisers with retreat orders can gate in for a nice defensive suprise.

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