| Minefield Decay Rates |
Wed, 04 January 2006 14:48  |
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 Spook |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2005
Location: Canada | |
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Hi,
I have a question concerning the decay of SD minefields.
I'm experimenting with an SD design. The game displayed decay rates for large minefields do not match the values I calculate based on what the Help file indicates. By large minefields I mean minefields with embedded planets and with decay rates larger than the minimum. The Help file indicates that SD minefields decay at 1% per year (if there are no embedded planets) but my experiments indicate that value should be 2%, the same decay rate as for all other races.
Is this another case of the Help file being wrong or is the Spook missing something?
Spook
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| Re: Minefield Decay Rates |
Thu, 05 January 2006 00:08  |
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The results of this test are very interesting - the help file is obviously incomplete and incorrect.
I just did a check for you and I sent an SD minelayer out to lay 100 standard mines and 100 speed bump mines. The standard mines show a decay rate of 10 mines - that's 10%, the Speed Bump mines show a decay rate of 2 mines - that's 2%.
After one turn, the decay rate shown was acurate. The standard minefield was now 90 mines and the Speed Bump minefield was now 98 mines.
To check this against a non SD race I transferred the same minelayer to another testbed race - a JOAT. The JOAT laid mines for one turn and laid 200 standard and 200 speed bump mines. The decay rate for the standard minefield laid by the JOAT was still 10 mines - now 5%, and the decay rate for the speed bump mines was now 4 mines - still 2%.
I then moved the JOAT mini minelayer and checked the results - the JOAT ships is still laying double mine capacity - same decay rates.
Further tests need to be run in this area.
For a standard minelayer (say a frigate), I created a non SD race minelayer to lay 100 mines. Decay rate was the same - 10 mines for the standard minefield and it was correct.
Now, we need to clarify what is truly happening for SD races and SD ship hulls since it is obvious that an SD mini mine layer lays double when transferred. The decay rates do match what the minefield displays though and the help file you can throw out in this case.
Also, we need to measure larger minelaying fleets - over 100 mines.
Remember though, the SD strength is in the fact that it lays mines the same turn that it travels and, it can detonate them at will. In my test the transferred ship did not lay mines the same year as travel (thank the gods in the Stars).
I will work on defining this more as I have time.
Ptolemy
BTW, great post and excellent question - Moderator? hint hint
[edited for spelling] Sorry folks - My fingers do the walking and they often walk farther than they should.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 January 2006 00:13]
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| Re: Minefield Decay Rates |
Thu, 05 January 2006 01:24 |
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Thanks Gible,
I appreciate the assistance. I figured there was an item here for the SD hulls but, in my short time to actually run tests and - do an in depth examination of the help file - the help file was left for later.
I will work on creating a NEW help file for Stars! I think. One that is more compatible with these newer operating systems and is able to use key words. This is something I can actually get done over the next year.
This is the EXACT text from the help file:
| Quote: |
Minefield Decay
Minefields decay at a rate of 2% a year for most races. If you belong to the Space Demolition Race, your mine fields
will decay at a rate of 1% a year. In either case, you should plan to replenish the fields as needed. (If enemy or
neutral ships thin them out, you'll need to rebuild as well.) Mine fields decay an additional 4% a year for each planet
they contain. The maximum decay rate for a mine field is 50%.
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Obviously this is incorrect since the SD minefield is decaying at 10 mines. And, 10 from 100 is 10%.
We really do need to define this and add it as a sticky to the SD section. As I stated, I will work on a new help file. Obviously a new help file will make things simpler for everyone.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Thu, 05 January 2006 01:27]
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| Re: Minefield Decay Rates |
Thu, 05 January 2006 08:44 |
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| Spook |
| Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2005
Location: Canada | |
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Hi,
Yes, but the Stars!FAQ is not always correct either. Not good for newbies trying to learn this game. To respond to each item you mentioned:
1. My experiments indicate that the base rate (free-space rate?) is 2%, regardless of race. That was what I was hoping someone would verify when I started this thread.
2. I have also experimented with my SD and determined that the decay rate for each embedded planet is an additional 1%/planet/year. I think this has been known for some time as a Google Groups search in rgcs turns up the odd message with that value mentioned. That, by the way, is an excellent value if you happen to be playing an SD!
3. Yes, detonating SD minefields do decay an additional 25% per year but my experiments show that if the minefield is less than 100 mines in size the game always decays them at 27mines/year (if there are no embedded planets). I hypothesise that the game uses the decay rate for a detonating field of 100 mines as the minimum rate for any detonating minefield. It's a hypothesis based on my recent experiments. Please prove me wrong if you can.
4. I have tested the minimum decay rates for non-detonating Normal minefields and Speed Trap minefields for both SD and some other races (PP, Joat, IS, HE). They decay as advertised. Have not yet looked at Heavy minefields (no time).
5. I have not tested the max total decay rate yet.
Spook
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| Re: Minefield Decay Rates |
Thu, 05 January 2006 08:45 |
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This is interesting but, for the SD race the MML did NOT double the minelaying rate. So, there is still some refinement of the definitions needed I believe. I will look into it.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Thu, 05 January 2006 08:46]
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| Re: Minefield Decay Rates |
Thu, 05 January 2006 10:22 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Ptolemy wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 14:45 |
This is interesting but, for the SD race the MML did NOT double the minelaying rate. So, there is still some refinement of the definitions needed I believe. I will look into it.
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Ptolemy, I assume that is because you did not let the SD lay mines when the MML was not moving, as you did with the JoaT race.
I can say with 100% certainty:
- the MML and SML hull double minelaying is _not_ PRT specific, it comes with the hull
- minelaying the same turn on arrival _is_ PRT specific, only the SD can do that, and with _any_ hull, so also with the common FF minelayer
(I'm sure this must can be found in the SD forum somewhere.)
mch
[Updated on: Thu, 05 January 2006 10:22] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Minefield Decay Rates |
Thu, 05 January 2006 17:45 |
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My Oh My - this thread has certainly created a hoohah.
Just to let you all know, my test worked very simply. The MML transferred to the JOAT only can lay mines as any non SD race can. When it does, it lays double mines.
The SD MML when set to lay mines shile moving layes 100 mines during it's movement - not 200. I haven't yet had the time to go back to the testbed and verify a waypoint 0 and 1 minelaying movement, but, I have my suspicians as to what will happen.
Ptolemy
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).... 
Someone may want to test the numbers for enclosed planets.
]
Usual race may not lay same turn as minelayer moves.