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No gates? Thu, 30 January 2003 05:07 Go to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
freakyboy wrote on Thu, 30 January 2003 09:38

Strategic advantage to an IT NOT building gates?? maybe.


Simply build cloaked SBs. When determining scaning range for
cloaked SBs, ~800 l.y. is used for scaning with infinity range
gates, IIRC.

That in mind, ISB (for ultras) would be something to consider.
Simply for more elec slots.


[Updated on: Thu, 30 January 2003 05:09]

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Re: Stars StoryLine Tournament. Do You Think Anyone Would Join? Thu, 30 January 2003 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Quote:


Simply build cloaked SBs. When determining scaning range for
cloaked SBs, ~800 l.y. is used for scaning with infinity range
gates, IIRC.


Infinite gates scan any gate out there, even when 98% cloacked.

Quote:


That in mind, ISB (for ultras) would be something to consider.
Simply for more elec slots.



Even if infinite wouldn't cancel all cloacking than it's still not worth it to take ISB only for that. IT will only see the planetary stats, not the ships in orbit.

regards,
mch

[Are we moving to the IT section now? Grin ]

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Re: Stars StoryLine Tournament. Do You Think Anyone Would Join? Thu, 30 January 2003 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Quote:

Infinite gates scan any gate out there, even when 98% cloacked.


Try building a testbed. With a 98% cloaked SB (ultra) and a
cloaked ship (to negate penscans) in orbit. You won't see the
ship. Didn't check about planetary info (becouse of penscans).

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Re: Stars StoryLine Tournament. Do You Think Anyone Would Join? Thu, 30 January 2003 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Quote:


Try building a testbed. With a 98% cloaked SB (ultra) and a
cloaked ship (to negate penscans) in orbit. You won't see the
ship. Didn't check about planetary info (becouse of penscans).



IT will NEVER see a ship in orbit with only their gate scanning, like all other races they need penscans for that. Gate scanning only give stats of the planet NOT of the orbit,

mch

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Re: No gates? Sat, 01 February 2003 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Yes. After testing I now see what You've meant. Sorry.

I remembered an ally from a game who said he couldn't see
planets with his */any gates. So is the range for gate scanning
really infinite?


[Updated on: Sat, 01 February 2003 15:01]

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Re: No gates? Sat, 01 February 2003 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
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Location: Where the clowns can't re...

basically if you gate a ship (under the max weight limit) without risk to the planet you can scan the planet with your gate.

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Re: No gates? Sat, 01 February 2003 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
regiss wrote on Sat, 01 February 2003 15:01

Yes. After testing I now see what You've meant. Sorry.

I remembered an ally from a game who said he couldn't see
planets with his */any gates. So is the range for gate scanning
really infinite?


Somebody on the newsgroup ran a test on this (can't remember or find who or the exact results), he stretched an universe as far as he could and the */any gate still saw everything IIRC ...

regards,
mch

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Re: No gates? Sat, 01 February 2003 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Quote:


Somebody on the newsgroup ran a test on this (can't remember or find who or the exact results), he stretched an universe as far as he could and the */any gate still saw everything IIRC ...



Couldn't let it go, searched again, I think this is the article I had in mind (no stretching though):

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W15542F43

regards,
mch

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Re: No gates? Sat, 01 February 2003 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Never have played IT in a PBEM, I allways feared they would see
my ships in orbit, therefore first of all cloaked and only then
build gate. Oh well..

But as 100/any gate still needs some effort in tech, I hope
that wasn't such a useless thing to do.

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Re: No gates? Sun, 02 February 2003 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Great things about being IT and gettin the 100/any gate before anyone else...

1. Information trade. Sell homeworld and developed plant information to the highest bidder. Also let people know the centre of a players hab range (can be helpful). But when you do this is might be a good idea to come across as someone with a fair few cloaked scouts.

2. Alliances. As I think everyone is aware the most valuble ally to an IT is another IT. Bugger CA and AR, another IT is best. Yeah ok no free terra or mineral fountain, but when 1 IT allies with another IT what you've essentially got is 1 race that can research 2 tech fields, has twice the fleet limit etc... Since 2 IT's can merge much better than any other PRT's you're well away.

3. You can grasp the size and rough ability of an enemy even without public player scores.


And best of all... No other player in the game has any idea you know what you do.

A favourite tactic of mine is to try to convince the universe that your race is JOAT. Send out scouts with a fuel pod and no scanners and get them blown up by your neighbours. Also downgrade your starbases away from the infinity gates before anyone engages them in combat. Doing this ensures only another IT can spot you (and you can spot him so no advantage there).

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Re: No gates? Mon, 03 February 2003 02:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
Bounce TEACHER! I have a question! Bounce
freakyboy wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 05:26

Great things about being IT and gettin the 100/any gate before anyone else...

2. Alliances. As I think everyone is aware the most valuble ally to an IT is another IT. Bugger CA and AR, another IT is best. Yeah ok no free terra or mineral fountain, but when 1 IT allies with another IT what you've essentially got is 1 race that can research 2 tech fields, has twice the fleet limit etc... Since 2 IT's can merge much better than any other PRT's you're well away.
Is that really such a foregone conclusion? I certainly had no idea, and I need some convincing. The points you made are valid, but such an alliance lacks the diversity I prefer, where one prt can do what the other cannot. Your duo-IT alliance accentuates the mobility of the alliance, but what about the weaknesses in each prt? The duo-IT alliance just has to make do with them. I'll admit the "weaknesses" of an IT race are subtle, nothing like "no minefields" or "no stargates", but I'm thinking perhaps an ally strong in other areas would be more beneficial, especially if the two work together in unity, intersettling, etc. Any race allied and well interspersed with an IT would be just as mobile, would they not?

Quote:

3. You can grasp the size and rough ability of an enemy even without public player scores.
I'm kind of afraid to ask, but I doubt my reputation as a Stars genius is going to suffer anyway, so why not? Laughing Here it is: How does being an IT and getting 100/any gates before anyone else give you any "grasp of the size and rough ability of an enemy" without public scores?

Quote:

Also downgrade your starbases away from the infinity gates before anyone engages them in combat. Doing this ensures only another IT can spot you...
How can he tell? Does the 100/any gate allow you to see starbases too? I thought someone said it only allowed you to see the planet. Confused
...



[Updated on: Mon, 03 February 2003 02:21]




I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: No gates? Mon, 03 February 2003 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

A duo-IT doesn't in any sense remove any weakness or incrase any strength racially. What it does do is essentially double your empire. Imagine an IT that can research both propulsion and construction (and weapons for that matter) say with 3k of resources per year, suddenly they can research 3k per year in 2 fields... essentially doubling tech. Yeah other races can do this but IT's can trade tech quicker than anyone else (build a scout, gate a scout, scrap a scout).

Imagine 2 races building a huge monster fleet and attacking you - bad innit? Worse still if 2 races only build 1 fleet. 1 fleet that's twice the size of yours and can arrive at any point along your borders quicker than your defense fleet probably can.

I'm not saying it's perfect... but it's quite the monster. Also consider that a duo-IT alliance doesn't require the 2 races to be ANYWHERE near each other.


Grasp size and strength -
For an IT to scan an enemy world with a gate the target world must HAVE a gate. A race with lots and lots of gates spread across a wide area where you can see no gates of other races would suggest to me a successful race. A race 2 or 3 strewn across a bigger area of another races gates would suggest someone of a lesser power - oh yeah... HE are exempt from this so don't even bank on them.


Starbase degrading...
Another IT can spot your stargates. I'm not sure about the design of the starbase - I don't think so either. Mistake on my part I think. But the point remains that faking a PRT is quite possible.

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Re: No gates? Mon, 24 February 2003 14:38 Go to previous message
yucaf is currently offline yucaf

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India
The only advantage of having a duo-IT alliance is effectively doubling their space and access to borders much quicker than anybody else. But that's all. All the other things you mention can as well be achieved by a another alliance of 2.

In an alliance you basically agree on researching together techs, in sharing the planets (depending on conditions), in defending mutually or more often attacking together possibly with complimentary warships, etc.

All other things you mention are just IT advantages (being first on the border etc.), you don't need alliance to get it.

An IT will get huge advantages from a CA for example, by being able to grab fast deep yellows and reforce his influence fast, instead of just having the one green in the region... The CA will get all those planets the IT can't use (they are generally on the lower hab side to allow intersettling)

An IT with an AR will get plenty of minerals he can move to his production centers in a couple of years, and the AR will get extra protection by the IT who can gate defense fleets to his endangered starbases...

An IT with a SS can not only move huge warships to the border, but the ships are cloacked...

I could go on like that. I don't see special advantages that make the dual IT a really "best practice". Of course, in some conditions, starting positions etc. it can make a lot of sense.

Now regarding the starbase scanning, I do not think either that it is a HUGE advantage. Well, you get to see into the planets stats a bit easily than the others. But by the moment you have those infinite stargates, your neighbours will have good penscanners and they can mount them on Galleons 97% cloaked and scan your stats AND fleets, and I advise to try to get a little bit than planetary stats, otherwise you may well have a big surprise when this ennemy fleet appears at your doors.

It's much more important to check what is building the other than to know his terraforming or mineral concentration (although I recognise it is a good thing to have
...

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