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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio
difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 07:09 Go to next message
dreadlordnaf is currently offline dreadlordnaf

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 27
Registered: April 2005
Location: Bulgaria
Basically im trying to figure the best plan for missle or torpedo ships that will tell them to fire but to always try to stay at max range so that slow beam ships cant touch them.

In trying to figure this out i couldnt quite determine the difference between the two plans: "minimize damage to self" and "maximize damage ratio".

Anyone know?

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
"min damage to self" will move to sit just outside the range of any enemy weapons regardless of whether you can hit anybody at that position.
Note that it doesn't "know" about the starbase extra range, so it will go and sit where a starbase can still hit it.
Try not to use it against enemy starbases.

"max damage ratio" I get mixed up with "max net damage" so I'll leave those for someone else.

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 534
Registered: February 2005
mazda wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 07:22


"max damage ratio" I get mixed up with "max net damage" so I'll leave those for someone else.



I always thought of MDR as MND but only taking into account the longest range weapons. However, I would be glad for somebody to clarify the battle orders and battle board mechanics in general as it always appears something of a mystery.

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
PricklyPea wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 14:00

However, I would be glad for somebody to clarify the battle orders and battle board mechanics in general as it always appears something of a mystery.

IIRC James McGuigan did a complete write up once of how the battle orders (are supposed to) work, it's on rec.games.computer.stars somewhere and maybe have been posted here as well once ... I'll see if I can find it somewhere today ...

mch

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

The following is the information from the Stars! help file that defines how all the battle plans are supposed to work:

Default Plans

New fleets are given a battle plan of Default. This plan sets up a default attack strategy if the fleet is armed, and a default flight strategy is the fleet is unarmed. You can't rename or delete the Default plan, but you can modify it.

Tactics

Choose tactics to use on primary and secondary targets. A tactic applies to the entire fleet.

¨ Disengage -- Attempt to run away as soon as possible. Seven squares of movement on the battle board are required to leave the battle. As movement ranges from ½ square to 2 ½ squares per round it can take from 3 to 14 rounds to disengage.

¨ Disengage if challenged – Behaves like Maximize damage until the token takes damage and then it behaves like Disengage.

¨ Minimize damage to self – Attempt to move to the location from which this token can do the most damage to its target while taking the least damage from your enemies.

¨ Maximize net damage – Attempt to get in range of the target class with all of your ship's weapons, then move in such a way as to always do some damage while maximizing damage_done/damage_taken.

¨ Maximize damage ratio – Attempts to get in range of at least one ship of the target class and move in such a way as to do some damage while maximizing damage_done/damage_taken.

¨ Maximize damage – Attempts to get in range of at least one ship of the target class with all your ships weapons, then tries to maximize the damage done. This tactic does not care about damage taken.

¨ Dump Cargo -- Jettison cargo at the start of battle.

Maximize Damage Ratio will not necessarily close to what may be considered the best location for you ship's weapons if it is carrying both short and long range weapons. For example, if you design a cruiser that carries range 6 missiles and a range 2 beam weapon, odds are that you will never get closer than range 6 in the battle. This is an advantage if when you want to use the short range weapons strictly as a deterrent against fast ships that try to get in close and destroy you with their short range weapons. If you do want to get closer and bring all weapons to bear, use Maximize Net Damage or Maximize Damage tactics.

Targeting Options

You can specify both primary and secondary targets. If no target matching the primary target description is found, the fleet looks for the secondary target. Possible targets are:

¨ None/Disengage -- Don't look for a target, just attempt to disengage.

¨ Any -- Target any opponent's fleet you encounter.

¨ Starbase -- Target the opponent's starbase whether it is armed or unarmed.

¨ Armed Ships -- Target any ship or starbase carrying weapons (does not include bombers). Preference is given to the strongest tokens this token is likely to be able to hurt.

¨ Bombers/Freighters -- Target Bombers and Freighters only.

¨ Unarmed Ships -- Target any ship not carrying weapons or bombs.

¨ Fuel Transports -- Target Fuel Transports only.

¨ Freighters -- Target Unarmed Freighters only.

Specifying the Right Target

Make sure your battle plan reflects what you really want your ships to do. For example, if you specify a target of Any and the closest ship happens to be an unarmed freighter instead of the enemy's battleships, you will waste a round destroying an easy target while the opponent's battleships pound you into space dust. In this case, choosing a target of Armed Ships would be much more appropriate.

Specifying which Players to Attack

Attack Who specifies which players are targeted using this plan. In a multi-player game, the categories listed are defined in the Player Relations dialog. In a solo game everyone is your enemy, and this field is disabled.

Starbases obey this field of your default battle plan.
-------------------------------------------------------

Regards and hope this helps
Ptolemy
...





Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Ptolemy wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 15:08

Specifying which Players to Attack

Attack Who specifies which players are targeted using this plan. In a multi-player game, the categories listed are defined in the Player Relations dialog. In a solo game everyone is your enemy, and this field is disabled.

For newbies reading this: keep in mind that even if your fleet has a specific player set to attack this does not mean that your fleet will only attack that players fleets on the battle board, it will not even be forced attack that player first of all players on the board.

Your fleets will engage all other fleets present that have your race set as a target, IOW your ships will "defend" themselves. And if you have more than one fleet present than all your ships will attack every "attack who" of all your fleets.

For example if you have a fleet of missile ships set to attack race A and a fleet of beamers set to attack race B and you have a battle with both races at the same time than both your fleets will shoot at race A and race B.
Should there be a third race C who has orders to attack you (but you don't have orders to attack him) than your ships will shoot at him as well ...

Quote:

Starbases obey this field of your default battle plan.

Please check the Starbase FAQ in the "Must Know" section for more details about starbase battle orders. Wink

mch

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
dreadlordnaf wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 13:09

In trying to figure this out i couldnt quite determine the difference between the two plans: "minimize damage to self" and "maximize damage ratio".



James McGuigan wrote:

Minimise Damage to Self - (Not 100% sure on this one) If within range of an enemy weapon then move away from the enemy (just like Disengage). If out of range of the enemies weapons or cannot move away from the enemy then try and get in range of the best available target without moving towards the enemy.

Maximise Net Damage - Locate most attractive primary target (or secondary if no primary targets are left). If out of range with ANY weapon then move towards target. If in range with all weapons them move as to maximise damage_done/damage_taken. The effect of this is if your weapons are longer range then try to stay at maximum range. If your weapons range is the same then do random movement while staying in range. If your weapons are shorter range and also beam weapons then attempt to close in to zero range.

Maximise Damage Ratio - As Maximise Net Damage but only considers the longest range weapon.

A bit more discussion here ...
(mentioning "minimize damage might work differenlty)

mch

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wildcard is currently offline wildcard

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 18
Registered: May 2005
Ptolemy wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 09:08


¨ Dump Cargo -- Jettison cargo at the start of battle.



Does this work? Could I put my colonists on suicide freighters, specify this in the freighter's battle plans, and have them be dropped on my planet even if the freighters are destroyed by orbiting enemy ships?

Or does it only work in deep space?

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 22 July 2005 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
wildcard wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 17:42

Ptolemy wrote on Fri, 22 July 2005 09:08


¨ Dump Cargo -- Jettison cargo at the start of battle.



Does this work? Could I put my colonists on suicide freighters, specify this in the freighter's battle plans, and have them be dropped on my planet even if the freighters are destroyed by orbiting enemy ships?

Or does it only work in deep space?



It doesn't dump colonists, only minerals,

mch

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Sat, 23 July 2005 03:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Storm is currently offline Storm

 
Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

...and the fall back down to the surface of the planet would probably kill them anyway... Wink

Cool



** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: difference between min dmg to self and max dmg ratio Fri, 26 August 2005 22:10 Go to previous message
Lord Mushroom is currently offline Lord Mushroom

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 25
Registered: February 2005
Location: Norway
Yes, your colonists would probably die.
MY colonists, however, are tough! Very Happy

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