| One immunity |
Wed, 29 June 2005 20:30  |
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 velvetthroat57 |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 111
Registered: June 2005 | |
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I have heard for awhile that the gravity and temp values come from a normal distribution but that the radiation value is from a uniform distribution. From this it is argued that you should take radiation immunity even though it is the field where you get your first terraforming capability.
I was curious just how much difference it would make so I ran a test:
-f IS race, 1/1000
temp band -96 to 96, grav band same, rad immune
small, packed (240 worlds)
I colonized and terraformed all worlds and put a large freighter orgy in orbit over each and then let the game gen to 2700. The resulting economy was 158k.
Repeated the experiment with a grav immune band and radiation the same width as temp. Resulting economy was 144k.
So taking rad immunity resulted in a 10% increase in final economy.
To get a similiar increase, you would need to take 1/900 and that is 200 points in the race wizard.
CAL
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| Re: One immunity |
Wed, 29 June 2005 22:42  |
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IMO the answer is not simple. If others like working on weapons tech, and avoid weapons immunity, then being different could be useful. You may end up with more planets no one else wants, and have tech for trade that is in higher demand.
Of course not having jihads when your neighbour is attacking you with them could be dangerous.
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| Re: One immunity |
Thu, 30 June 2005 13:47 |
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| crr65536 |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005 | |
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They do occur, but less often (except for the very edges, which never occur). A distribution is something like this:
________
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
Someone posted the formula by which gravity, temperature, and radiation are calculated a while back. I don't remember the gravity, but temperature was random(90) + random(10), and radiation was of course random(100), although because of rounding issues the edges never occur.
[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2005 13:48] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: One immunity |
Mon, 04 July 2005 15:32 |
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| Quote: |
AR is hard to play in general and as IFE-less it is thinkable only in dense or packed universes.
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I saw Sotek do such (no IFE) in Trans (unusual Transformer OA/miner nubian gift ships were part of game) and if he wasn't in such a tight corner, attacking me early and used a few more fuelies, IMO he would have done good.
I think IFE is overrated, its nice but there are other ways to get same sort of result such as good use of ISB and fuel booster network.
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| Re: One immunity |
Mon, 04 July 2005 23:54 |
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| velvetthroat57 |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 111
Registered: June 2005 | |
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Everyone likes to go warp 9 to speed their expansion as much as possible but since colonists keel over when the ships move for AR, it is even more important for them to move as few times as possible between worlds. Very hard to go that fast in the early game, particularly STA, without IFE. IS with the early fueler and HE with the settlers delight, and IT with high early prop might skip it but most everyone else needs IFE if they want a rapid early expansion.
Kotk, I agree with your research path for a quick race, but there are two things to consider. First is that pre-terraforming the rad immune race has the better worlds. Center habbed grav worlds will just naturally come its way. This means the very early growth will be better for them. Second is that by not being able to do early terraforming, which presumably will make a grav immunes worlds better than the rad immune unterraformed ones, the quick starting race ends up spending more on early expansion. By 2430 he may have saved 500 resources from each of his planets (while having worlds that are only say 300 resources worse off) and those resources will go into research and any early warships needed to get a better border. Then once expansion is ended, there is a chance to do prop and get the 10% more per world and on a few more worlds besides.
The race would need to be designed with the immunity in mind to get the most out of it. Prop cheap/normal and/or no NRSE to get some other use out of Prop 16 will help. No NRSE and rad immune means the radiating hydroscoop is available to move people around. That is probably the best early game engine a non-HE, non-IFE race could get. IT maybe as PRT since they need prop for gates anyway or IS since small hab differences won't affect the orgies.
For a 3.5 cheap race, taking the 0.5 as prop instead of electronics would be a good choice. Prop for Elec should be an easy enough trade to arrange in most games and the early beamer wars won't care either way.
Another option would be to make the grav hab wider than the energy so energy terraforming is the one that matters more.
I am not saying it is a slam dunk, but it is worth considering. Like I said, to get 10% more per world from the race wizard you would have to go with 1/900 and that costs 200 RW points. Admittedly, you get more from 1/900 than from better habs since you have to create the 10% more colonists somewhere in the latter instance but still, being slightly disadvantaged in early to mid game play is not an unreasonable price to pay for the equivalent of say 150 RW points.
My eyes are starting to cross so please ignore any typos and sentence fragments.
CAL
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| Re: One immunity |
Tue, 05 July 2005 07:48 |
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| mazda |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK | |
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| velvetthroat57 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2005 01:30 |
-f IS race, 1/1000
temp band -96 to 96, grav band same, rad immune
small, packed (240 worlds)
Repeated the experiment with a grav immune band and radiation the same width as temp. Resulting economy was 144k.
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Another point is that if you take grav-immune then you usually don't leave the radiation centered.
In your example you will have the rad from 26 to 74 (48 wide).
You could shift that to 36 to 84 to gain some RW points, still leaving maximum room for the +/-15 terraforming. In other words you lose absolutely nothing by moving the rad band, but do gain RW points.
You cannot shift the temp band in this way as you start to lose terraforming space, and then hab the further you shift.
So comparing the grav-immune with the rad-immune you could say that the rad-immune does cost more points as you *have to* have the other bands more centered.
Taking grav-immune allows you to shift the rad band, gaining points in the process.
If you shift the rad band and then widen it you can get back the same hab that you get in the rad-immune scheme.
Obviously the exact costs will vary. Maybe it is always more expensive one particular way. However the difference is not going to be anywhere near 10%.
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sorry about that. 
Why you assume all terraform is done *before* game is decided?