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Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 03:26

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

Hi

I had a DD set to battle plans with "Attack Who" as "Enemy" and the player whose scout was there was set as "Neutral". But still there was a battle. why?

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 03:40

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

Hi,

imkeshav wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 09:26

I had a DD set to battle plans with "Attack Who" as "Enemy" and the player whose scout was there was set as "Neutral". But still there was a battle. why?

This is not new. If his orders were the defaut ones, his ship was probably set to attack "neutrals and enemies", which you probably were. *He* attacked *you* Shocked

Of course, you could ask him what his orders were and if he regards you as enemy or neutral or... Wink

[Updated on: Wed, 16 March 2005 03:42]

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 03:41

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

If the player who owned the scout had it set to "attack Enemy OR Neutral", then there would have been a battle.

For a battle to occur, it only needs one player to kick it off regardless of the other's settings... and I think that counts even if it is unarmed! Shocked

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 03:56

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

There is one similar effect I had once in a game: I had an agreement with my neighbour to set each other to neutral and all battle plans to attack enemy only.

We had a multi-party battle in which he attacked me.

I was quite upset, cause he promised to set me to neutral and all battle orders to attack enemy, and when I asked what had happened he said he really had done so, which I could hardly believe...

In the end it turned out that there was a third party that he attacked. The third party was set to friend by me and to enemy by him. So he did attack the third party (a scout) and regardles of battle orders my fleet protected the "set to friend" fleet from the "set to neutral" fleet and ignored the battle plan to attack enemy only...

It took a while until we understood what happened...

Twisted Evil

Robert

2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 04:21

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

But can an unarmed scout initiate battle? I don't think so.. i have tested this

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 04:28

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

very stupid reply that has been deleted by the author himself Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Wed, 16 March 2005 09:05]

2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 04:33

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

...and then, of course, you have to take into account the Battle Plan "bleed" you get between fleets...

...not to mention the clash between Player Relations settings, and Battle Plans...

Embrace the chaos... Very Happy

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 05:02

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

Let me revisit my point..

The "Neutral" scout was unarmed
I had a DD with orders to attack only enemies.. (So I had to initiate this battle)

and a battle occured, there were no other races present.

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 05:14

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

Were there any other ships there?
At all?

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 05:16

donjon

Lt. Commander

Messages: 808
Registered: November 2002
Location: Benque Viejo del Carmen, ...

The neutral scout was unarmed...
he had you set to enemy or neutral
attack orders were (on his part) to attack enemies or neutral and enemies.

Like a moth to the flame.
He attacked you.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 March 2005 05:16]

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 05:16

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

There was a starbase without weapons and few unarmed privateers

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 05:35

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

imkeshav wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 11:16

There was a starbase without weapons and few unarmed privateers

Starbases can mess things a lot. See the Starbase FaQ in this same forum at http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=131 8&start=0&rid=625&S=b405577e340b250ec3d85c91e553 f22d

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 05:56

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

Yes...
IIRC, don't starbases use "Default" orders, no matter what your other ships are set to.
This can screw things up major-league-big-stylee-kickin-in-the-crib-word-up-yo-homies -in-a-ragamuffin-pant-an-ting.

Err...
See link above.. probably... Cool

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 06:17

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

Thanks for the link!!!

Just observed that the starbase had couple of torpedoes. Sinse the "default" plant was set to attack "Neutrals and enemies", it explains the start of the battle (i think Rolling Eyes

).

But its weird that my DD went ahead and killed the scout, even when its orders were to attack only enemies.

Hmmm!!!

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 06:31

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

imkeshav wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 12:17

Correct. The starbase started the battle using it's "attack who" from the other players default battle plan.

Quote:

But its weird that my DD went ahead and killed the scout, even when its orders were to attack only enemies.

The DD was only defending itself It was targetted by the other race so it returned fire.

mch

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 06:59

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

Quote:

The DD was only defending itself It was targetted by the other race so it returned fire.

But the other players scout was unarmed, so can it target the DD

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 07:03

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

Did the scout belong to the same race as the SB?

If so, and one member of the faction targetted your DD, then a localised state of war existed at that point!

All targets of the opposing race are fair game... Shocked

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 07:52

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

imkeshav wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 12:59

Quote:

The DD was only defending itself It was targetted by the other race so it returned fire.

But the other players scout was unarmed, so can it target the DD

keshav

It was the starbase that targetted the DD. So the DD started shooting at anything belonging to that race.

Like Storm says:

If so, and one member of the faction targetted your DD, then a localised state of war existed at that point!

All targets of the opposing race are fair game...

mch

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 08:26

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

Quote:

It was the starbase that targetted the DD. So the DD started shooting at anything belonging to that race.

Oops... I haven't been clear!!

This occured on
MY planet with
MY starbase and
MY DD

Another players "Neutral" scout was in orbit.

So obviously my starbase cannot target my DD.

So in effect..
My starbase did not target my DD,
The unarmed scout did not target my DD

BUT why did the DD go and kill the scout when that player was set as neutral and DD had orders to attack only enemies

Also I have looked at the battle report and under the coloumn "Unarmed" the number is 0. But isn't there one unarmed scout of the other player?

I can send you the game files if you want...

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 08:32

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

The way I read it....

The starbase, since it was acting under Default orders, would have targetted the unarmed scout (as it was neutral/enemy), even though it was out of range.

Fortunately(!) the DD *was* in range of the scout, and finished it off for you!

Basically, as soon as a ship is targetted by one of your ships/bases, then it becomes fair game for all of your forces.

I think this is correct... can anybody back me up on this?
...cos I'm starting to get confused... Rolling Eyes

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 10:09

wizard

Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 279
Registered: January 2004
Location: Aachen, Germany

Storm wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 14:32

*backing you up* Cool

This sounds reasonable for me, I've had the same thought.

Andreas / wizard

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 10:11

imkeshav

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Land of many ppl

hmmmm

This would mean Starbase battle orders have overriden the battle orders of the DD and as such it has attacked the unarmed scout Exclamation

So what do you say...Elders? Yes

?

Is this a bug?? Scared

keshav

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 10:13

mazda

Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK

Due to the presence of the starbase a battle was initiated between you and your neutral opponent.
Your DD is part of this fight regardless of whether it was the vessel that triggered the fight.

What the DD then goes and shoots at depends on the other part of it's battle orders. Nothing to do with player relations.

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 10:15

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

I had a similar problem a few weeks back.
I posted here with regards to a fleet of bombers that refused to bomb.
As it happens, they were set to "attack no-one".

However, as soon as an armed fleet of mine came along to join them, with an "attack enemies" order, the orders "bled across" to the bomber fleet, and off they went, raining happy fiery death down upon the heads of those innocent insurance salesmen, taxmen, and dentists that I loathe so much.

Is this is a bug?
Well, technically yes. Smile

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Battle Plans : enemy

Wed, 16 March 2005 10:19

mazda

Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK

imkeshav wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 15:11

This would mean Starbase battle orders have overriden the battle orders of the DD and as such it has attacked the unarmed scout Exclamation

So ?
Do you think it unreasonable that given your Starbase wants to clobber the scout that your very own DD doesn't back up it's Starbase ?
This sort of thing happens all the time.
Usual thing is to change the default orders if you don't want to shoot at neutral visitors.

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