| tech trading? |
Mon, 04 October 2004 15:21  |
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 Lordpenguin |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 31
Registered: August 2004 | |
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I know about the concept of tech trading, how one should go about it, but how exactly do you choose what tech levels you wish the ally to recieve, and in what category? sorry if i sound stupid.
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| Re: tech trading? |
Mon, 04 October 2004 20:31  |
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| Strat |
 | Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 62
Registered: March 2004 | |
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Regarding Wolf/Lamb
It was my undestanding by LEit that each battle counts as a different "Event". NOT by number of ships in the battle!
Therefore, there must be several battles to have several events to increase chances of tech trade as noted in the diagram on the Stars! FAQ Paper:
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#Higher
Tech Fields
Available
| 6 | 49 74 87 93 97 98 99 99 99 99
| 5 | 49 74 86 93 96 98 99 99 99 99
| 4 | 47 72 85 92 96 98 99 99 99 99
| 3 | 44 69 82 90 94 97 98 99 99 99
| 2 | 38 61 75 84 91 94 96 98 99 99
| 1 | 25 44 58 68 76 82 87 90 92 94
-----------------------------------------------
|-----| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Tech Trading Events
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Example would be:
7 Wolf/Lamb Style battles with only 1 tech level possible to be gained for each Wolf participant would have an %87 chance of success for each (Wolf participant).
It would make sense to me (Based off of above) that each planet being pop-dropped would count as a seprate event.
Aside from that point:
It is also my understanding that these events can occur in orbit of a planet that has NO starbase, with a possible tech gain.
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
-Strat
[Updated on: Mon, 04 October 2004 21:20] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: tech trading? |
Tue, 05 October 2004 00:08 |
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My 
When using Wolf / Lamb the generally used number of ships is 5 or 6 - in 5 or 6 seperate battles. As posted above, each battle is a seperate event. Just as in scrapping ships, (you do not increase chances by scrapping more than one ship in a fleet), you will not increase chances with shooting down more than one ship in a fleet. A note on Wolf/Lamb - trading weaps can sometimes have an unplanned result - i.e. an attacking frigate may ket killed by a weaps 16 scout....so, pay attention.
For planet pop drop trading, the most preferred solution is to use 3 planets - preferable reds to both races - with one player dropping as waypoint 0 manually each turn and the other player dropping as waypoint 1 each turn (just periodically adding pop to the drop ships). This way each player has the opportunity to gain tech in the same year (there are 2 battles at each planet). The other advantage is that the planets always appear to be owned by the player dropping with waypoint 1. Keep in mind that the player doing the waypoint 1 drop can gain a tech level the same year it is researched by the player doing the waypoint 0 drop - but not vice-versa.
In the case of pop drop trading there is no way to guarantee that a tech received is the one that is most desired - i.e. player 1 has 2 levels of bio and one of weapons over player 2 - player 2 may get the 2 levels of bio before the weapons. That said, the main advantages of pop-drop trading are; the 2 players even out in tech (and pretty much stay that way) and the cost is low - 600 colonists per year (less than one resource to most race designs, no minerals, no ship building, no slot usage - cheap resource for trading). Personally, I'll use planetary trading any time.
The most commonly used tech transfer is scrapping and it is good to remember that either player can do the scrapping - i.e. player 2 can scrap ships at player 1's planet for player 1 to receive tech.
When trading with more than one ally - be careful - you can only gain ONE tech level per year from trading - you can NOT gain a level from invasion and another level from scrapping or battle in the same year.
Ptolemy
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| Re: tech trading? |
Tue, 05 October 2004 00:37 |
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| Quote: |
When trading with more than one ally - be careful - you can only gain ONE tech level per year from trading - you can NOT gain a level from invasion and another level from scrapping or battle in the same year
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Thus... order of events is important.
1) Scrapping
2) Waypoint 0 pop drop
3) Combat (wolf/lamb, attacking enemy)
4) Waypoint 1 pop drop
Combining a few scrappers with pop drop means you get a good chance of the tech you want, but if you miss still may win some tech. (Useful in early game).
Combining combat such as attacking enemy with waypoint 1 pop drop means you may steal the enemy tech but if you fail still get chance through pop drop (useful if enemy is ahead on important field compared to you and your allies).
Combining Waypoint 0 pop drop of enemy with wolf/lamb or waypoint 1 pop drop of allies is similar to above.
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| Re: tech trading? |
Tue, 05 October 2004 10:18 |
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| vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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| mlaub wrote on Mon, 04 October 2004 17:28 |
| vonKreedon wrote on Mon, 04 October 2004 15:50 |
2 - Another disadvantage to the Wolf/Lamb method is that it must take place in open space and is thus very recognizable to anyone who has the site in scanner range.
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There is no such limitaion. While it is tougher to do only in distance, you can still wolf/lamb around planets with no SB.
-Matt
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To expand on my potentially mistaken understanding of Wolf/Lamb trading:
- If the trading site is a world that I populate then I will be eligible to receive a tech boost from the Lamb. I was mistaken in saying that Wolf/Lamb MUST take place in open space.
- If the trading site is a world that I do not populate, either unpopulated or populated by another race, then I am NOT eligible to receive a tech boost from the Lamb.
My experience with Wolf/Lamb has been to use it when either trying to bring several allies up in tech levels at once, or when trading partners are unable to scrap at each others SBs. Wolf/Lamb enables multiple trading partners to gain tech from the same events, but the events must be in open space. Wolf/Lamb also enables trading partners who cannot actually get to each others planets to trade tech by transferring Wolf ships to each other and then making Lambs available in open space.
Is all of this correct?
[Updated on: Tue, 05 October 2004 10:19] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: tech trading? |
Tue, 05 October 2004 10:39 |
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The event for worlf/lamb is combat. It is irrelevent where that combat takes place - be it in space, at an uninhabited world, or an inhabited world of any race. Generally, wolf/lamb takes place in open space as a matter of convenience - it is more conveneient to use a location in space half way between two trading partner worlds to reduce travel time. It is highly unlikely that 5 or 6 worlds of convenience will be located close enough together in the same area to have the combat take place over planets. Even with galaxy clumping the availability of suitable planets that are easy distance from both trading parties is unlikely.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: tech trading? |
Wed, 06 October 2004 05:33 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| vonKreedon wrote on Tue, 05 October 2004 16:18 |
| mlaub wrote on Mon, 04 October 2004 17:28 |
| vonKreedon wrote on Mon, 04 October 2004 15:50 |
2 - Another disadvantage to the Wolf/Lamb method is that it must take place in open space and is thus very recognizable to anyone who has the site in scanner range.
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There is no such limitaion. While it is tougher to do only in distance, you can still wolf/lamb around planets with no SB.
-Matt
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To expand on my potentially mistaken understanding of Wolf/Lamb trading:
- If the trading site is a world that I populate then I will be eligible to receive a tech boost from the Lamb. I was mistaken in saying that Wolf/Lamb MUST take place in open space.
- If the trading site is a world that I do not populate, either unpopulated or populated by another race, then I am NOT eligible to receive a tech boost from the Lamb.
My experience with Wolf/Lamb has been to use it when either trying to bring several allies up in tech levels at once, or when trading partners are unable to scrap at each others SBs. Wolf/Lamb enables multiple trading partners to gain tech from the same events, but the events must be in open space. Wolf/Lamb also enables trading partners who cannot actually get to each others planets to trade tech by transferring Wolf ships to each other and then making Lambs available in open space.
Is all of this correct?
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If there is a battle in orbit of an inhabited planet only the race that inhabits the planet can get tech from that battle.
An uninhabited planet is fine, all parties can get tech there.
A starbase is not what makes the difference (see this as part of the Starbase FAQ here at the forum).
mch
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| Re: tech trading? |
Wed, 06 October 2004 05:48 |
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| Micha |
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| LEit wrote on Tue, 05 October 2004 03:35 |
My understanding is that it could happen at a world with a base.
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Only the race owning the base/planet can get tech in that case.
After missing to get tech from 10 events for 3 turns in a row in a teamgame something didn't seem right ...  So did some testing and found out why ... 
| Quote: |
That's often a bad idea in general, because wolves will drag in other ships of the same race to the battle, and instead of one wolf killing one lamb, you might have two allied battle fleets killing each other...
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In general a very bad idea indeed, be very very carefull when using this. Only do this with experienced players who know what they are doing.
My team uses it from time to time to speed up techtrading, for example when wolfs turn out to be out off reach (lambs too heavy for their fuel supply) or when the wolfs can't kill the lambs (RS eny14 lambs with blue laser wolfs) ...
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Wolf lamb is very effective, but you should count on making mistakes, because getting every thing right every turn is not likely.
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Very effective indeed, especially in teamgames, scrapping means 10 lambs/scrappers for every teammember, W/L means only 10 in total ...
As for mistakes ... I've seen it two times in my early Stars! that wolfs who wolfs were send back to a planet to be scrapped/replaced still had orders to attack an ally, and the planet where they arrived had the main fleet of those two allies ... NOT a pretty sight!!
Some tips:
- ALWAYS give the LAMBS the dangerous battle orders. The lambs should die the next turn, so the danger goes with it.
This also prevents the wolfs from sweeping your friends minefields.
- NEVER target the wolfs, ALWAYS target the deepspace coordinates (or planet). (as above if the wolfs return to the planet the lamb will end up being there!!!)
mch
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