Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » Joat Olympics!
Joat Olympics! |
Tue, 10 August 2004 06:46 |
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Finally reaching a calmer part in my life right now. I have the time to get Joat Olympics finally started.
IFE/NRSE
OBRM
NAS
Grav Immune
Temp -112 - 112
Rad 36 - 86 (Right shifted)
1/3 overall
19% Growth
1/1000
5/25/5 Facts
10/3/11 Mines
Weap/Con Cheap, Rest Exp
4 points left over to Min Con
Apply to fish at csfbl dot com
I will need a race name for you to be signed up.
Xdude
Dude!Report message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Tue, 10 August 2004 23:44 |
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xdude wrote on Tue, 10 August 2004 03:46 | Finally reaching a calmer part in my life right now. I have the time to get Joat Olympics finally started.
IFE/NRSE
OBRM
NAS
Grav Immune
Temp -112 - 112
Rad 36 - 86 (Right shifted)
1/3 overall
19% Growth
1/1000
5/25/5 Facts
10/3/11 Mines
Weap/Con Cheap, Rest Exp
4 points left over to Min Con
Apply to fish at csfbl dot com
I will need a race name for you to be signed up.
Xdude
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X: You petty excuse for an officer (couldn't pass up the chance for to paraphrase a spaceballs line), using a NF for a olympics race is just sick.
IMO, olympics may prove to be more competitive and interesting if in a smaller universe. Say small-packed. Then have a race w/ very moderate abilities. Growth doesn't have to be exceptional. Use a smaller universe and the action starts earlier.
Example race.
Joat
IFE,TT,ISB,NAS
.52->1.92
-92->92
21->79
(1-6 overall)
16% PGR
1/1000
14.9.16, g
10.3.21
All expensive (all start at 3 due to joat's abilities)
Narrow and centered hab to utilize at least 90% of all worlds at full TT. That way you have the maximum array of parts and devices at your disposal. Everyone has the same race so in the end you would end up w/ the maximum diversity of competing strategies.
Tech goodies available. Remote miners, Pen scanners (innate), all engines except the IS-10, can eventually use every planet (though may actually be an incentive to make remote mining more useful the more planets a universe has--just to make things interesting). Much more interesting w/ all expensive tech. Everyone will need to pick and choose their research and their temporary alliances very carefully. Game will pick up very quickly due to 1/1000 and factory growth. Initial centered hab is more conducive to having a uniform start across all regions of the universe. Most planets are in the center of a given hab variable (with exception of radiation which is uniform distribution).
g.e. (Gakl)
[Updated on: Tue, 10 August 2004 23:57]
g.e.
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"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. DickReport message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Wed, 11 August 2004 03:31 |
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The original race posted is hardly a powerful race and typical of JoaT designs. If you wanted a powerful and intersting -F joat, I could think of a number of better designs, such as a 17% dual immune variant. Hits 40k by 50 pretty easily.
As a NF, the proposed design is relatively weak and would require significantly more MM than most other races. Moreover, due to the low overall resources, it would mean that the game would have a slow pace. It would allow far fewer overall strategic options for players to tackle given the specialized race design. For a game where all people play the same race, you'd think you'd want to maximize the ability for individuals' play styles and strategies to show through.
g.e.
====
"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. DickReport message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Wed, 11 August 2004 06:01 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
xdude wrote on Tue, 10 August 2004 12:46 | Finally reaching a calmer part in my life right now. I have the time to get Joat Olympics finally started.
IFE/NRSE
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Why NRSE? With -f there's plenty germ available for cheaper ramscoops. And with low -f econ it's really recommended taking ISB.
I have some doubts with Olympics and -f econ combo. IMO it is not as fair as the Olympics should be. If the race has factories, then it can grow econ from two sources: pop and factories. But with -f econ there's only one source, and that source depends heavily on planet draw. If a good player with a -f race gets bad planets, he can not do much against average player with many good planets. He will be crushed with just sheer numbers from much larger economy, and not with skill. But if he could build factories, then that difference in econ size should not be so big, as factories compound with the same speed on 100% planet as on the 40% one.
My .
BR, Iztok
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Wed, 11 August 2004 18:46 |
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Kotk wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 02:37 |
SinicalIdealist wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 09:31 | The original race posted is hardly a powerful race and typical of JoaT designs.
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So as real good cure you suggest a race with what the original "hardly useful" race will just brush its toilets?
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Well, in my experience (and I've been playing stars! since 1996, won more expert level games than most players have even played), I answer: Yes.
The modified aforementioned Hybrid-QS design is lower growth and w/ centered hab due to the nature of planetary distributions in each hab variable. This is not an olympics game to see who can design the best race. The goal is to see who can do the best given that opponents face all the exact same challenges.
As such, the goal must be to minimize the probability that a group of player in any given region of the universe will have their competitiveness offset massively by universal randomness. A NF race will face challenges in randomness of hab distribution. A race that w/ less centered habs will also face these challenges more. Something around 70-80% of planets fall more than 20 clicks from the edge in Grav and Temp. As such, it is more important to center these variables if all races are going to have the same design. That way you have the maximum number of habitable planets available to all. If I were going to field my most competitive race in this game, it would not be the design I suggested. I would take plenty of cheap tech, forgo a number of LRTs, and boost the PGR to 19%. However, this is a game where it is more important that random chance of getting screwed on planet distribution is minimized. Also, by increasing the number of available strategies, you're more likely to see a highly competitive game with genuine variation in game-plans -- some very disparate that will turn out to be highly successful.
g.e./Gakl on #stars!
g.e.
====
"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. DickReport message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Wed, 11 August 2004 19:38 |
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Kotk | | Commander | Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
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SinicalIdealist wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 00:46 | (and I've been playing stars! since 1996, won more expert level games than most players have even played)
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Oh... someone like me. I would like to duel you.
Quote: | As such, the goal must be to minimize the probability that a group of player in any given region of the universe will have their competitiveness offset massively by universal randomness.
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How can narrow hab, growded environment and unability to reach any terraforming tech in sane timeframe work against it? One gets 2 breeders neaby, rest get 3 yellows and one tiny germaniumless green. I am not advocating -f, but I think that such alternative works opposite.
If we want a fair JOAT olympics then why not make it fair JOAT olympics by taking some average JOAT?
Common JOAT LRT-s: IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
Common JOAT econ: 1000, 12/9/15 (v) 10/3/17
Useful tech: Weapons cheap, energy & construction normal
And then ... to get it more fair and all around ... make it centered 1 in 3 hab
That leaves 15% growth ... but since all get it... its fair.
Of course for me "JOAT olympics" at the first place sounds simply like a game where all PRT-s beside JOAT are banned. Then players can join in with their desperately innovative game plans and successful tools.
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Wed, 11 August 2004 22:42 |
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Kotk wrote on Wed, 11 August 2004 16:38 |
Oh... someone like me. I would like to duel you.
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I don't really do duels. I prefer games with many players. More fun w/ more player interaction. I usually choose a low planet:player ratio. ie. Small packed w/ 16 players or medium sparse. Fun starts earlier.
Quote: |
Quote: | As such, the goal must be to minimize the probability that a group of player in any given region of the universe will have their competitiveness offset massively by universal randomness.
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How can narrow hab, crowded environment and inability to reach any terraforming tech in sane timeframe work against it? One gets 2 breeders neaby, rest get 3 yellows and one tiny germaniumless green. I am not advocating -f, but I think that such alternative works opposite.
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Crowded environments just mean the action of the game happens more quickly. The 70% cost on terraforming will offset a bad hab draw. The reasonably high growth can offset a bad germ draw. Admittedly, I should probably have set bio to cheap. That would make biotech a legitmate strategy for tech gain for at least a few races. W/ slightly higher growth 1 or 2 parties could even benefit from acting like a NF and researching bio. I think more expensive tech would be fine as long as you're not using slow tech. Makes the game far less of a race straight to nubians. It's more interesting if you push that technology into less of a possibility until after year 85 at least. Even in a small packed you'd see players getting nubians in the 60s-70s w/ con cheap.
Also, for a small crowded universe, hybrid designs with a heavier factory load and narrow hab makes more sense. There won't be many planets anyhow. Makes red colonizing a viable alternative w/ more useful factories in a serious planet crunch.
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If we want a fair JOAT olympics then why not make it fair JOAT olympics by taking some average JOAT?
Common JOAT LRT-s: IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
Common JOAT econ: 1000, 12/9/15 (v) 10/3/17
Useful tech: Weapons cheap, energy & construction normal
And then ... to get it more fair and all around ... make it centered 1 in 3 hab
That leaves 15% growth ... but since all get it... its fair.
Of course for me "JOAT olympics" at the first place sounds simply like a game where all PRT-s beside JOAT are banned. Then players can join in with their desperately innovative game plans and successful tools.
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Game is more like IROC JoaT. The race design for CA olympics was pretty painful. I managed to get stuck with the worst hab draw I'd ever seen in any game. Killed enough players that I didn't do terribly though.
[Updated on: Wed, 11 August 2004 22:51]
g.e.
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"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. DickReport message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Thu, 12 August 2004 02:21 |
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I never suggested a tiny universe.
I suggest small packed or medium sparse.
Granted, it's damn near impossible to find 16 expert level players to get them in a game at the same time these days.
I usually shoot for 14-20 planets/player.
The design would work out pretty nicely in such a situation. It does need a couple tweaks. Mostly, I think it needs bio cheap. If there was cheap tech, I'd suggest using "slow tech." Slower tech growth means that most ship designs have a useful life span of about 10-15 years rather than 5-10.
g.e.
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"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. DickReport message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Thu, 12 August 2004 08:56 |
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perece | | Crewman 1st Class | Messages: 20
Registered: July 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia | |
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If You really want to make it "fair as Olympics should be" why not pick low PGR tri-immune race (or at least temp and grav immune) and maximum minerals?
SMTP /Perece/.
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Thu, 12 August 2004 16:19 |
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Game will be small packed. All players will use the same race.
I'm not going to change the design. It's built to test your abilities with a race handed to you.
Olympics is similar to the IROC series, but people are scored in five catagories.
Players will be ranked 1-16 in the following catagories:
Green Planets, Cap Ships, Escort Ships, Resources, and Tech Levels
Scoring will be 1000 points for first and pro-rated down to
62 for 16th place, based on a full 16 player game.
Points will be slightly different if less than 16 players.
If there are more than 16 players, two games will be run and
players will be split between the two games, AND universe
size will be adjusted accordingly.
Dude!Report message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Fri, 20 August 2004 09:59 |
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Need five more players.
I'm hoping to start the game by Sep 1st.
Xdude
Dude!Report message to a moderator
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Re: Joat Olympics! |
Fri, 20 August 2004 16:37 |
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I think I may sit this one out. Not so interested in a -f...
g.e.
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"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. DickReport message to a moderator
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