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People tend to have a lot of beamers, but you are right: mix the fleet! (or have the biggest force by large )

Nubians I like (by slots):
2 AMP
3 en cap's
3-5 BD's (use more when opp's just have beamers!)
1-2 Shields (hmm, no way of getting at least en18?)
0-2 jammer30's (do they have alot of missiles?)
Not sure if you have speed 2.25 now, maybe try to get it...

I usually use no jammers and rely on chaff (IMPORTANT: Make your chaff based on the scouthull, frigatehull is not attractive enough anymore usually!!!). If you have RS you have just designed a nub almost impossible to kill by beamers (and missiles don't reach it because of the chaff)

This designs tend to be a bit germconsuming (I often play -f, so then you can afford it), so if you are low on germ, you probably can't use that many BD's. They work like a charm though.
In that case a bit more weapons and less defense to balance germ/bor spendings.

ARM-nubs I usually don't build much and some think that bb hull can be just as good for that.
But for fun:
2 Nexi
2 jammers
lots of ARM
Some shields (Hmm, still no en18)
Easy to get the highest init and kill off the starbase (orders!) before it can say:"what the...".

*ends rambling*

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Hi!

scottrick49 wrote on Tue, 03 August 2004 16:16

This is my second stars! game online. The first one never reached the nubian era. I will be hitting construction 26 in about 5 turns, and I wanted to be prepared for designing my new ships.

You can search Google group RGCS for keywors "nubian design". A LOT of topics will pop-up. Just be aware that with Nubian hull there's no ultimate design. "Depends on the situation" is nub's other name.
BR, Iztok

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scottrick49 wrote on Tue, 03 August 2004 16:16

So, could you people, who are wise with wisdom, give me some tips/pointers?

Take RS! ... what do you mean "too late for that?" ...

mch

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Thanks for the help guys.

And to answer a couple questions...

Yes, I am RS.

Yes, I will have phase shields AND jammer50 by the time I have nubian hull. If anybody has a revelation because of this, please let me know.

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scottrick49 wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 16:51

Yes, I am RS. Yes, I will have phase shields AND jammer50 by the time I have nubian hull. If anybody has a revelation because of this, please let me know.

Just my humble opinion, but you have the makings of the best all around nub possible.

1 Enigma Pulsar
2 CPS
3 Energy Cap
3 BD
1 Jammer 50
3 Amp

I once got into a Nub building contest in Huge Dense against these... The only thing I could come up with to counter them was an unjammed shoot first design. Luckily, he didn't have enough Iron or Germ to build enough missile ships to counter my design once he finally saw it. I was able to keep him in the dark until he passed the 4k Nub mark. Metal was starting to become scarce for him, and switching to missile boats wouldn't have had as much effect against a large stack. So this is a hint! build missile or torps to accompany these ships.

One big gotcha, though. While the Jammer 50 is awesome, be *very* careful designing your missile boats. Once your chaff is gone, your missile boats might be more attractive than you beamers with the Jammer 50.

Also, that is an expensive engine, but worth it. Try to minimise the cost by dumping extra research into Prop (I assume that the other techs are already high).

Another note... The Enigma Pulsar vs. the Trans-star 10 make the ship go from 160kt to 205kt, this be very significant against a lighter R3 opponent! In reality, I have only seen 1 set of ships that could do any real harm by using the range difference. Plus, you have to actually disengage before this nub can fire twice. Essentially making the first fight an attrition fight to even the odds. This is very tough to orchestrate correctly. In nearly every other situation, the extra speed plus gaining a slot via jammer50 is tough to compensate against. Throwing RS and CPS on top of that is just mean...

One last thing. Check on your mins before you lock yourself into a primary nub design. In endgame beamer fights, the larger stack usually wins, + - about 20% depending on design. So, you certainly don't want to build any design that uses to much of a mineral you are short on. Plan ahead.

-Matt

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mlaub wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 21:12

scottrick49 wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 16:51 Yes, I am RS. Yes, I will have phase shields AND jammer50 by the time I have nubian hull. If anybody has a revelation because of this, please let me know. Just my humble opinion, but you have the makings of the best all around nub possible. 1 Enigma Pulsar 2 CPS 3 Energy Cap 3 BD 1 Jammer 50 3 Amp [snip] -Matt

If going with something like this design you might want to go with 2 AMP and an extra BD. IS pay a premium for weapons and you might want to spread that cost over more hulls. In a beamer vs beamer fight the 4th BD stack will go farther than you would initially think.

A lot will also depend on what you limiting factor is; resources, minerals (and which one), or ability to get ships to the front. AMP beamers are generally not that much cheaper in resources than missile boats for instance. (NOTE: Lots of cost variation due to designs mind you. Obviously a 5-ARM stack Nube will cost differently than a 3-Omega stack Nube.) Most of the limitations generally favor building beamers however.

Hmm, would one way to compare ships be costs per 1000 fp/dp?

- Kurt

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overworked wrote on Fri, 06 August 2004 07:01

If going with something like this design you might want to go with 2 AMP and an extra BD. IS pay a premium for weapons and you might want to spread that cost over more hulls. In a beamer vs beamer fight the 4th BD stack will go farther than you would initially think.

The 2 are virtually identical in power. However, there are some specific issues with adding BD's instead of Amps that you alluded to, but didn't state specifically.

First, and foremost, BD's will effect Germ cost, Amps don't. The amount of Bora used on this design is usually much less than the Germ limitation inherent in end game econs. The added Bora min cost from the AMP's would be significant on BB's and more primitive hulls, but usually not Nubs. One design I didn't even bring up was a Big Mutha version of this ship. The Bora used on an IS version would be too much, but the AMP version is OK.

Second is sheer FP. I don't like the 2 AMP versions, as they just can't dish out enough damage per battle round. Sure, if the other guy doesn't have Missiles/Torps, you can run through 8 battle rounds plinking each other to death. A big stack of Missile/Torps, though, will shred that strategy, right after you lose your chaff...but, if the universe is almost totally out of Iron, yea, good call.

On resource limitations, there is no easy way around that. As to ships getting to the front, you must be referring to Missile/Torp ships? I usually build 2 versions. A gateble 2 stack Omega Nub (there are several reason why I do this, which gets into different subjects). The other design is a cloaked ARM design geared for spoiling a unjammed counter to my main Beamer.

Quote:

Hmm, would one way to compare ships be costs per 1000 fp/dp? - Kurt

Direct comparisons on this point are rarely useful when multiple designs/orders are used. You are comparing apples to apples, when your opponent might have oranges.

-Matt

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[Updated on: Fri, 06 August 2004 18:01]

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[Updated on: Sat, 07 August 2004 12:20]

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There are no ultimate nubian designs.

Count your minerals and check your mining rates as first thing. That is the only real limit.

Then check if you know what nubians others build. That is the real environment that matters.

Then testbed and build the best fleet possible from that limit and against that environment, whatever the forum say here.

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vonKreedon wrote on Sat, 07 August 2004 11:18

IIRC Range 3 and Range 2 beams can work on one design if you use Maximize Damage orders rather than Maximize Net Damage orders. My memory is that with Max Damage the ship will move to try and bring all weapons to bear at range 0. But I agree with Iztok that one you have AMP it is wasteful to use the Synchro Sapper.

Looks like the issue is getting confused again. So, here is a quick explanation. Essentially, the deal is this, if you have enough sappage to take down the opponents shields at range 3, then your ships stay at range 3. If your ships do not have enough sappage to eliminate the opponents shields, your ships close to range 2 so that the range 2 beams can finish the shields.

Different battle orders make no difference. Maximize Damage, Maximize Damage Ratio, and Maximize net Damage make NO difference whatsoever to the outcome. All this is easy to replicate, and also shows that it is indeed a "bug" in the program.

Which brings us to my general rule of thumb, "Don't mix Sappers and R2 weapons!". The behavior won't always happen, but rest assured that you will experience it when you can least afford it.

-Matt

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It is worth considering using sappers only on nubian as a separate support design.

Best effect when opponent has AMP nubs with IS-10 engines as their beam power. Nub with fm or qj-5 + slot of thrusters and full power sappers. Jam enough so opponents missiles take them last. Range 3 at lighter ship with bigger firepower is quite useful.

Testbed and take only optimal amount into battle. Usually they die but can turn the odds in a quite surprizing ways.

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Hi scottrick,

I wouldn't yell your design into the world that loud. Or are your sure that none of your enemies are reading the forum?
Good luck with your Nubians!

Andreas

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wizard wrote on Mon, 09 August 2004 17:10

I wouldn't yell your design into the world that loud.

I would... and then actually build best counter to its best counter. Probably i would actually start production from overcloakers and ARM nubs.

[Updated on: Mon, 09 August 2004 11:26]

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