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Movement in Battle

Fri, 02 July 2004 08:47

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

Ok, guess this is a tricky question:

There is a war coming, and I field Omega Nubs. They have a move of 2. My enemy has normal move 1 chaff and he is not WM.

What is the battle order to make my Nubs stay where they are,
or move 1 forward and 1 back? Max Damage makes them advance, Retreat makes them step backwards.

I want to have them 6 steps from his moving a single step chaff while having his move 2 nubs 5 steps away (in range).

I had that situation a while ago, and it worked with max net damage, but at that time he had mostly move 2.5 range 3 nubs, and with 2 steps forward my nubs had been in range, so they stepped back. Now he has range2 move2 nubs, and maybe it is no more working with this fleet composition???

Anybody experience with this?

Thanks

Robert

2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Movement in Battle

Fri, 02 July 2004 10:27

Ptolemy

Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

Your main problem is that your Omega nubs appear to be too fast for what you want them to do. By moving 2, they move into range of the chaff. They will not move one step forward, one step back - it doesn't work that way. If you use speed one omega ships, you would have them move one forward, one back in 2 seperate movement phases using max net damage orders.

Your only alternative is to try to use any/any/disengage so that they keep retreating, but, the enemy range 6 nubs will get into range to fire. If you have higher init on your shipos you'll get the first shot.

Your best bet is to testbed the expected battle before it happens with different battle order combinations and decide whether you have those ships go into battle or not. You may want to pull them back and increase the size of the fleet, add chaff or make whatever other adjustments are necessary to guarantee victory.

Ptolemy

[Updated on: Fri, 02 July 2004 10:27]

Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 07:20

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

Thanks, but with move 1 Omegas chaff would be in range anyway, cause starting distance is 7, both omega nubs and chaff move, then range is 5 and here you are... even stepping back next turn would not make a difference cause his chaff moves 1 forward, too.

any/any/disengage is not good here, cause his mixed arm/omega nubs will be out of my range while his arms shoot me down (depends on his battleorders, with max net damage they usually do, with max damage ratio they will come in range mostly, at least thats my experience).

I had one battle where the nubs moved as I wanted, pure luck...
And I thought there was someone out here who knows what made them do it - and I am pretty sure it depends on enemy designs, and even more sure it was their move 2.25 range3 beam nubs...

You are right, testbedding and retreating while not sure about outcome of the battle is smartest thing to do, but I hoped someone could tell me some tricks so I dont need to do that Very Happy

Thanks anyway

Robert

2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 09:32

Ptolemy

Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

One potential trick is to transfer a few ships to another player when you move into battle. This changes the starting positions on the battle board and modifies who moves where. If you have an ally this may work quite well - especially if the ships transferred become more attractive due to his tech levels. You can see the starting positions here:
http://library.southern.edu/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th= 284&rid=343&S=b32ad63bdde700a9f2cf004d91e4eb9e&p l_view=&start=0#msg_2094

Again, you should experiment first before you choose to do this or at least verify the attractiveness calculation for the ships involved.

Ptolemy

Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 10:02

multilis

Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Quote:

I had one battle where the nubs moved as I wanted, pure luck...
And I thought there was someone out here who knows what made them do it - and I am pretty sure it depends on enemy designs, and even more sure it was their move 2.25 range3 beam nubs...

To get what you want, 2.25 movement with right battle orders might be good for your ship design depending on their fleet (gives 3 movements first round). That gives you a chance to move forward, then hold, then move back one on first round. It has to do with ship weights, first round movements, and battle orders... if you want I can go into more details.

[Updated on: Sun, 04 July 2004 10:03]

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 12:49

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

Ptolemy wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 15:32

One potential trick is to transfer a few ships to another player when you move into battle.

It doesnot work wp 1 transfer event occurs after battle event.

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 12:57

Ptolemy

Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

Hmm - yes, transfer the ships the year before if sending them to battle, transfer the same year as waypoint 0 if the battle is coming to you.

Ptolemy

[Updated on: Sun, 04 July 2004 12:59]

Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 13:52

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

The problem here is that chaff gets too close to torpers... and none of the starting shemaes actually makes the 2 positions any farther from each other.

Omegas do hit chaff like all of them torpedoes, there is no much to do about it. What i have seen that helps to achieve something against chaff (in the order of goodness):

1) I have used chaff busters with some success. Some high init and 2.25 movement range 3 beam BB-s or dreads that fire before opponent nubs and drop chaff. Does not work if opponent has chaff-defender BB-s with muthas, so these need to be sniped out first.

2) I have found that minimum damage to self helps but only in very rare and carefully testbedded occasions.

3) I have seen people building light and slow torpers (based on destroyers or cruisers) that are lighter than enemy BB-s and then do not move because opponent beamers moved into range already. That has limited success in BB era and is questionable in cost/efficiency terms also it does not work at nub era, the AMP nubs are too damn light. Confused

Other than that my nub era fleet consists mostly of AMP-s so the missile power (mostly armaggedons) is there just to chase them wimpy guys, snipe out bombers or orbitals and keep rest of them jammed and keep them building chaff. When theyre jammed and drag chaff along then they have done their homework for me and I do not worry much about what that small missile power actually hits in battle. Nod

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 14:32

LEit

Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT

Ptolemy wrote on Sun, 04 July 2004 12:57

transfer the same year as waypoint 0 if the battle is coming to you.

Transfers always happen toward the end of the turn, waypoint 0 or 1 does not matter (although if you transfer at waypoint 0 and have different waypoint 1 orders, the transfer will not happen).

- LEit

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Re: Movement in Battle

Sun, 04 July 2004 15:38

Ptolemy

Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

Yes, I stand corrected. Confused

Fleet transfer is a seperate event and occurrs just after minelaying and just before CA insta-forming.

Ptolemy

Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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