Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » How do I use Minefields?
|
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Thu, 03 June 2004 14:29   |
|
|
|
I am playing a real one, and my last one was also real. Every game is unique and favours unique styles, or are you going to call an SD in Dark Ages a non-player?
It is not so easy being gateless, but that doesn't mean people can't win with it or HE is always easy pickings. Mlaub took out an experianced CA with one of his HE races (mentioned in HE forum).
In Transformers, I am stuck in the most crowded corner with Sotek next to me trying to play aggressive and another player apparently trying to talk war against me even before first contact. It is still early 30's, I can't go much into specifics for stategic reasons.
...
[edit to add extra info]
My earlier cloakers were 95% because that was all that was needed that early against my opponents. Later I progressed to 98% minelayer overcloakers. We are not talking a whole lot of forces... if I can force you to build some expensive galleans to look for my cloakers that helps pay for the effort
[Updated on: Thu, 03 June 2004 16:38] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Fri, 04 June 2004 05:41 |
|
| Kotk | 
 | Commander |
Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
|
I was not saying that HE (or whatever PRT in good hands) is easy pickings. Just from your comments it seems you assume that HE can harrass people with hundreds of quite expensive and decent technology ships (weap 12 elec 11, construction 10) far in their space while opponent can afford barely only few funny beta DD-s to use against it and sending few chaff or building galleon of same cost (your jihad morph and galleon i described both cost about 360 resources) is too expensive for them.
Besides such galleon will be bought by your NAS allies for real money while with cloaked jihad morph there are really nothing to do after about 10 years ... but scrap.
Thats why i suggest trying real game, where HE has no 2 x the score of next best.
[Updated on: Fri, 04 June 2004 05:56] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Fri, 04 June 2004 07:34 |
|
|
|
You misunderstand terms. Orbitial checker is a generic term used on some stars web sites for a cheap ship that goes into orbit around a planet and sees what else is there. HE can make less expensive ships than any other race. No cloaking required for these, just shear numbers to make it hard to shoot them all down, then unpredictable flight path.
| Quote: |
cloaked jihad morph there are really nothing to do after about 10 years
|
can be useful for many more years than that, main problem is have to scrap or give to others when slots get tight (same applies to galleon, etc.)
Note I am talking smaller map where nubs don't 'come in 10 years'.
95% is still good enough for less contentious areas where the enemy scanners are further away, there are safe places to go orbital, etc. You can overcloak chaff, if metamorphs then haul goods, snipe enemy minesweepers, etc. Non-IS, non NAS super scanner ships only have so much range.
So how much does your scanner ship cost and if you are non-NAS... how far can you see a 95% cloaked ship? How many of these ships will you build?
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Fri, 04 June 2004 12:20 |
|
|
|
50 resource destroyer... now how much do you think my ships cost? Hint: Think cheapest possible, include the moderate miniturization bonus everyone gets early.
I can send wave after wave of 100 orbital checkers. After a bit I know where all the minefields are, including those place without minefields. A few destroyers can also be sneaked in to open more holes. (I am not talking dense or packed space which requires different tactics)
Your destroyers run slight risk of being hunted by cloaked ship.
13 to 26 ly isn't that easy to catch ships, I would have slight chance of being anywheres in your territory including borders, not just 100x100 ly area.
I had some of my swarm in the backyard of an experienced opponent last game who has won game(s) with some other experianced players here from reading posts in completed games. Not so easy for him to stop.
Funny situation was when one of my orbital checkers went to watch a wolf-lamb arrangement by the enemy and got chased by opponents warships.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Fri, 04 June 2004 15:47 |
|
|
|
Cost is LESS than 5 resources a ship in a moderate amount of time. I am not going to line them up so your destroyer can get one every turn. Lol, good luck if you think it that easy, see you in a game.
HE being gateless can't move his ships around so easy to defend himself. If he can get some of your ships away from gates for little cost that is good.
In my current game I can tell you where many of Sotek's forces are, what his stardocks look like, what his latest destroyer is (or his previous cruisers, etc). I would have liked to have hidden the fact I was HE like Mlaub does, but with the luck of the starting positions that did not seem possible.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Sun, 06 June 2004 14:30 |
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Starting position has a slight relationship on if you can hide the HE PRT for a set time period.
|
More than slight in this case. Lots of neighbours, scouts can approach from all sides, PRT and aggressiveness of neighbours... all contribute to difficulty/price.
Kill every scout and you may hide your PRT but also face 3+ players ganging up on you early and there is a cost involved to man-jet destroyers.
Picking mineral desirable rather than hab desirable planets to spread to, the lower pop including on HW, people who visit the forum know I've used HE...
I decided reasonably early it wasn't worth the trouble this game and switched to openly using my HE advantages.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Mon, 07 June 2004 11:11 |
|
 mlaub |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
|
| multilis wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 13:30 |
More than slight in this case. Lots of neighbours, scouts can approach from all sides, PRT and aggressiveness of neighbours... all contribute to difficulty/price.
|
Accurate, but as I said, it really is dependant on your skill at deception, and your opponets obsevation skill. I never said it was easy, and in fact feel it is impossible against a competent player that is "aware" of the possibility.
| Quote: |
Kill every scout and you may hide your PRT but also face 3+ players ganging up on you early and there is a cost involved to man-jet destroyers.
|
This is part of the deception, of course. You do not kill all enemy scouts (everyone is a enemy to a HE in the early game). Guard your secret by keeping your HW unknown. Keep track of enemy scouts. Against a normal player, perhaps 2 killed scouts are all that is necessary (try to do it in the same year). Appropriate apologies, concern at never doing it again, etc... "giving" up a tech or 2 for your self induced punishment is usually all that is required. Ride the diplomatic wave, and ask for trade.
Whenever I play a 4% HE, I am very forthcoming and generous in limited tech exchange (at least for a while). This goes a *long* way towards gaining trust, and is actually useful to the HE. All I have to do, is survive intact, at or around Y55. Later is better, of course...
| Quote: |
Picking mineral desirable rather than hab desirable planets to spread to, the lower pop including on HW, people who visit the forum know I've used HE...
|
Well of course, however there are lots of mineral rich planets. So pick the ones that match your target pseudo hab until you are big enough that it does not matter.
I'm not sure what universes you are playing in that you have so many problems. I would not play a 4-5% tri-immune in less than a medium sparse with 6 player, or equivalent space density. That is the smallest game I have ever won with a 4%. I did not fool any of those players (It was a private game, of some of the best players I know), they knew exactly what I was by Y25, and yet I still managed to win...Maybe I'll scrape together a time-line of what I do, when I have time (ha!).
| Quote: |
I decided reasonably early it wasn't worth the trouble this game and switched to openly using my HE advantages.
|
There are easy ways to avoid detection of your HE ness early on. Latter, when I feel scanners have caught up and I need to continue deceptions, I scap all my minicolonizers, and switch to medium, privateers, and or large freighters. Many times, I concentrate on prop to tech 9 or 12 scoop. This gives me a engine that is not only plausible, but has better eff and farther range than the SD engine (or close enough).
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Mon, 07 June 2004 18:30 |
|
|
|
Matt, I can't go into details of why I don't think PRT hiding would have worked for long this game as it is still going on and fairly early, let others pay for intel rather than get it for free.
I was initially planning a similar kill a few scouts if they don't heed warnings approach but felt need to change plans.
In my last game I followed a similar strategy but it was accelerated start (up to turn 20 was 3 turns at once, then 2) which made reacting to scouts harder.
Kotk, I would love to have a game at some point. I can manage only one game at a time... sometimes real life work gets busy (several different people think their stuff is urgent).
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do I use Minefields? |
Tue, 08 June 2004 10:34 |
|
| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
|
| multilis wrote on Mon, 07 June 2004 17:30 |
Matt, I can't go into details of why I don't think PRT hiding would have worked for long this game...
|
Heh, every year they are not in the know, is advantageous.
| Quote: |
In my last game I followed a similar strategy but it was accelerated start (up to turn 20 was 3 turns at once, then 2) which made reacting to scouts harder.
|
Yes, I can see that would make it tough. Especially against a JOAT that doesn't planet jump.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sun May 05 13:54:13 EDT 2024
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
Cant you name things with their usual names?
Try playing a real one now. 
