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| Re: exploding minefields |
Wed, 12 May 2004 19:12   |
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It's the fault of player numbers - I believe the MML's belonging to the player of the higher number are immune to the lower number's exploding mines. This is a bug and not supposed to happen.
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Thu, 13 May 2004 01:25 |
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I ran a test with two SD's.
Test Case
2 SD mini mine layers
Overlapped minefields, both mini minelayers inside both fields.
Explode the fields.
Results:
Mini mine layer for player 1 was unaffected
Mini mine layer for player 2 was destroyed
Explode minefields on subsequent turn.
Mini mine layer for player 1 still not affected.
Conclusion:
The LOWER player number mine layer doesn't get destroyed from a higher player number SD's exploding minefield.
Definitely a bug.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Thu, 13 May 2004 03:06 |
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That logically explains the situation and it is correct. After turning off the detonation of the player 1 minefield, the player 1 mine layer is destroyed by the player 2 minefield. The logic is incorrect though since the minelayers are supposed to be 'immune' from your own fields. Therefore, the detonation of the minefield for player one should not 'hit' the player 1 mini minelayer at all.
Therefore, it is a bug in processing logic. Something we'll have to make sure to address in Freestars.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Thu, 13 May 2004 10:26 |
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Well, when your ships move to lay mines they generally won't be moving so slow as to stay inside a minefield - to do so would only allow you to create one big minefield, not many small ones. If minefields outside your minefield have been laid and set to explode, your minefield that you lay the same year you move can not be set to explode. Therefore, your move would be in /end in an exploding minefield and you are hit.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Thu, 13 May 2004 15:01 |
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| Quote: |
So how can this be made "fair" to all players? I'm certainly not going to turn my mines off to allow you to blow me up!
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Well, technically that is exactly what you should do. Both minelayers were in each others fields, both fields detonated, both minelayers should be dead. The fact that yours survived only by a logic error in the game engine shouldn't really count - the mine layer should be / is already dead. My advice in this case is:
1. Turn off your detonation and let the other field detonate - or -
2. Scrap the ship in space
Being fair about the situation in this instance isn't going to cost you much and gains you more in reputation than you lose in the cost of the single ship.
My  worth.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:02]
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Fri, 14 May 2004 10:39 |
|
 Kang |
 | Senior Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 87
Registered: April 2003 | |
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| Ptolemy wrote |
Being fair about the situation in this instance isn't going to cost you much and gains you more in reputation than you lose in the cost of the single ship.
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Nice idea, I'll double check this situation and verify that my ship was in the field when it exploded. I was intending to do that yesterday, but did not after the explanation was posted here. Still, if that is the case then I must also go back and verify every mine layer in every turn and hope that all the opponents minefields show up on my scanners (which they do not.)
While I'm at it, I'll have to check every minelayer ship belonging to player #2 who is also an SD, and I believe has benefited from this bug in at least one of my fields. I would also insist that player #2 perform the same review of every previous turn, and if player #1 is also an SD (I don't have that information in front of my now) he should do the same.
"It isn't going to cost him/them much and gains more in reputation than is lose in the cost of the ship(s)."
| Sinla wrote |
I've put some thought into this and most easy would be you scrapping your 'offending' minelayer. It should have been dead, ya know
This is most fair (you probably didn't see the minefield?) I think, but we can ask for a ruling from our GH.
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Nice idea but impractical. The game host will not have enough time in the day to check up on all possible instances of this bug when there are 4 SD's know to be in this game.
| LEit wrote |
It is possible for any ship to be in an exploding mine field and take no damage.
If you start the turn outside the field, and it expands to cover your position, you will look like you are 'in' the field, however, you won't be in it when it explodes, so you will take no damage. Combined with the other bug, it may be difficult to figure out when a ship should be dead and when it shouldn't.
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That is also a possibility which must be considered.
Kang
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Fri, 14 May 2004 11:27 |
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Kang,
Please post what you find out. Obviously, since I am playing in this game I can't examine the files as a moderator. With 4 SD's in this game there is always going to be the possibility of everlapped minelayers in exploding minefields. Additionally, minefields may not be on scanners when they are set to explode and, as LEit correctly pointed out, a minefield may grow to cover a ship that didn't actually travel into it since fleets move before mines are layed. All you SD players should work out together how you want to deal with the potential problem. I can envision a situation where 3 of the 4, or all 4, of the 4 SD's are all in each others minefields, all in the same area of space and all set to explode. Only one minelayer would not be affected by the explosions and that would be the lowest player number.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Sun, 16 May 2004 11:54 |
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| Kang |
| Senior Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 87
Registered: April 2003 | |
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I found three instances where ships of mine were clearly in a minefield owned by race #6. It appears that only the one instance in question was his field set to explode. Two ships were in that minefield and have been set to scrap where they are in space.
Kang
[Updated on: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:11] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: exploding minefields |
Sun, 16 May 2004 14:09 |
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It sounds like a fair enough solution.
Later on when there are Super Minelayer hulls the issue may become more cloudy since some ship designs may survive a detonation. It is not going to be possible to deliberately assign the damage to a ship that it should have received from having been in a detonation.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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exploding minefields
)
. Below 2k econ at 2465 and weap expensive quite prohibits "early" fighting. The Dark Ages III will remain dark for quite some time 
