 CA Question |
Thu, 06 May 2004 13:27  |
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| Sandman |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 20
Registered: April 2004 | |
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CAs have their wonderful Orbital Adjuster modules but I can't seem to figure them out! If I put them around an uninhabited planet they sit there and do nothing. If I put them around an inhabited one I get a msg that says that (paraphrasing here) "the planet has been terraformed to its limit" or words to that effect.
If it doesn't work on uninhabited worlds and inhabited worlds automatically get terraformed to the limit anyway, what the heck is this thing good for?
"Fascinating Captain."Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CA Question |
Thu, 06 May 2004 13:45  |
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 Crusader |
 | Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land | |
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This sounds a lot like what I did the first time out with CA. Luckily I was only testing, like you, and so ...
First off, ya gotta have some terraforming tech available. If your worlds don't show 38(63) or some such in the hab values then you simply can't terraform them, with or without the OA.
So I guess I shoulda said, "First off, the world has to be inhabited by somebody." Because it won't affect one that ain't ... inhabited I mean.
Then, you gotta have terraforming tech.
You can't terrform your HW. It's always perfect. 
If you orbit it over an "friend's" world, it will improve the world for your friend. If you park it over an enemy's world, it will make the world worse for him.
Details are currently hazy in my mind because ... oh, yeah ... I don't play CA. 
I'm sure someone who does will give a more detailed explanation of how the OA works in each and every situation, though. So just hang in there. They probably posted while I was typing, so my post is most likely superfluous already, but only because I always check my spelling. I can't spell worth spit, so I have to look everything up which slows me down tremendously. 
But do not doubt the OA for the CA. It is an AWESOME weapon and trading toy, whether you trade the item itself or simply the service. I would recommend selling the service.
The Crusader 
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| Re: CA Question |
Thu, 06 May 2004 16:35 |
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| Sandman wrote on Thu, 06 May 2004 13:27 |
CAs have their wonderful Orbital Adjuster modules but I can't seem to figure them out! If I put them around an uninhabited planet they sit there and do nothing. If I put them around an inhabited one I get a msg that says that (paraphrasing here) "the planet has been terraformed to its limit" or words to that effect.
If it doesn't work on uninhabited worlds and inhabited worlds automatically get terraformed to the limit anyway, what the heck is this thing good for?
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Orbital Adjustors are *useless* for terraforming your own planets. You automatically terraform to your best available value since you are a CA.
However, said part will terraform (to the best of your terraforming ability) the planets occupied by *other* races.
IF the race is not set as a friend, and does not have a station orbiting the planet you terraform away from their ideal hab values.
[Aside: And if you terraform them to a "red" value then the number of facilities they can operate, INCLUDING DEFENSES, is quite limited.]
IF the race is set as a friend you terraform towards their ideal hab values. A station being present or not does not affect this.
This is a major reason CA races are desirable as allies, and generally considered a mandatory PRT for larger team set-ups.
- Kurt
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| Re: CA Question |
Thu, 06 May 2004 22:24 |
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| Sandman |
| Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 20
Registered: April 2004 | |
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So the OA Module is great for allies but can't do anything for you? Hmmmmm, no wonder it never did me any good in the one-off games I played against all computer opponents! Thanks for the insight guys...I'll have to remember this when our next game warms up...
"Fascinating Captain."Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CA Question |
Fri, 07 May 2004 07:48 |
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| Sandman wrote on Thu, 06 May 2004 22:24 |
So the OA Module is great for allies but can't do anything for you? Hmmmmm, no wonder it never did me any good in the one-off games I played against all computer opponents! Thanks for the insight guys...I'll have to remember this when our next game warms up...
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The OA is also an excellent toy for offensive use - to be feared by enemies.
Once you drop their station you do the following:
1) De-terraform and run - reversing some hard-earned work.
2) Spend a year running the hab into the red (since OA work is towards the end of the turn... this cripples industries and number of defenses operated. Next turn it is *much* easier to bomb the planet clear - often leaving some factories/mines intact. [CA using OA is one of the "cleaner" ways to get a '2 year' planet kill.]
Small numbers of OA just chip away. Look at what effect a mobile group of 20-30 of them can do. (Limited to terraform ability of course. One reason that a CA w/TT and some bio tech is so nasty.)
[Once the "Trans" game ramps up I expect we'll hear some stories since the ships all players got have 8-12 OA modules per hull.]
- Kurt
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| Re: CA Question |
Fri, 07 May 2004 16:09 |
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| Orca |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 1 |
Messages: 148
Registered: June 2003
Location: Orbiting tower at the L5 ... | |
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The less expensive (but takes longer) varient is mass deterraforming + small group of bio bombs. First turn shuts the defenses off. Second turn kills off all but maybe 400 pop. Third turn you invade and take over the intact world...works best with a TT CA - much better chance you'll be able to completely shut off the defenses. (5 defenses operated counts as completely shut off in my book)
Edit: You could invade on turn two with a waypoint 1 popdrop.
[Updated on: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:11]
Jesus saves.
Allah forgives.
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CA Question |
Fri, 07 May 2004 18:39 |
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| Carn |
 | Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003 | |
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Important for offensive OA use is order of events(found in Stars FAQ). Instaforming of CAs happen before OA terraforming and that way enemy CA world can be turned and kept red with enough OAs.
OAs are nearly always better, than deterraform bombs, because those bomb only terraform to original values, while OAs go beyond that . Also if one uses OAs and bombs, enemy has to target both bombers and unarmed ships if he just tries to take out your bombing power and ,if no OBRM, minefields are less problem, because maxi-miners survive mine hits far better than bombers.
But looking at event order, one can see, that detteraform bombs can be effective under special cicumstances, if used with allies bomber fleets. Order is ...Bombing(after each player defence is recalculated)....Waypoint1 orders(invasion)...CA instaforming....OA deterrafroming.
If OAs are used only, the effectiveness of first round of Bombing cannot be influenced, so just normal bombing can happen with many beautiful factories damaged, though this can be reduced if two attacking players adjust their bomb fleet set up(lower player number should have enough LBU, normals to lessen defence and higher should have something to kill pop). But if lower player number has enough deterraforming bombs, team bombing can be frightingly effective, if enemys world was red originally: Detarraform bombs make planet red again, defence is recalculated, only 10 defences still work, next player can use relative few smart bombs to kill pop and with waypoint1 order the interested player drops. So deterraform bombs allow teams to make cheap immiediate drops without damage to installations, if planet has originally been red to enemy.
This tactic can only be used with lot of communication and scouting, so is probably only suited for team games(never tried myself). And its only useful against narrow hab races(even 25% habability remaining means full defences). Funnily this means, if one fights a narraow hab CA-TT monster race, the best ally would be CA-TT(monster race?). 
This is the only use for deterraform bombs i know, maybe someone else has another idea.
Otherwise always use OAs in attacking, even if orbit is lost next turn, production of enemy planet will be lower for 2-5 turns, since he has to terraform again to get full production.
Carn
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| Re: CA Question |
Mon, 10 May 2004 09:30 |
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| Carn |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003 | |
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| Micha wrote on Mon, 10 May 2004 13:32 |
| Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 10 May 2004 07:33 |
Deterraform bombs?
I'm not aware of anything other than the OA that has unterraform ability, at least in 'Vanilla' Stars. Are you talking about a modified version?
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No modified version, check the Technology browser for bombs:
after the LBU-74 and before the Smart Bomb you'll find the Retro Bomb.
mch
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I meant retro bombs.
Thanks, i didn't know the name, because i never use it, as in most cases OAs are better, cost about the same, are build for allies anyway(they don't need them anymore when they backstab), cost roughly the same and (i repeat cause i think its imporatant) have to be targeted as unarmed and not as bombers/freighters.
Carn
[Updated on: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:32] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CA Question |
Mon, 10 May 2004 18:53 |
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wow. I wonder why I never spotted them before. I suspect I made the same assumption - that OAs are better, so why use deterraform bombs?
A couple of good answers to this have already been posted:
1) OOE -> bombing has an earlier point in the OOE to the OA. Most significantly, it could be possible for a ship with retro bombs to remove defenses ready for an ally (with later player number) to bomb the planet in the same year.
2) Cost -> they are cheaper and lighter.
3) Transfer -> you can give these to allies for use on the offensive, without giving them direct access to one of your most powerfull economic tools. If I ever played CA (I never have...) then I'd be reluctant to transfer my OA ships, but I could probably be persuaded to transfer some retro bombers.
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| Re: CA Question |
Tue, 11 May 2004 10:08 |
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| Carn |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003 | |
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| LEit wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 15:50 |
And won't work on any world that is 23% green with no terraforming (with OBRM 23% = 253000 pop, means 100 defenses can be opperated).
Late game, they'll probably work well against most worlds, but not all. OAs on the other hand work if the opponent has at least one band that is narrower then your terraforming ability. With TT 30, that's pretty much guarenteed unless you run into a low growth HE.
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Therefore i said in my first post in this thread that "OAs are nearly always better than retros" and "retros can be effectively only under special circumstances".
My idea was for those players, who do extensive planning, scouting, bookkeeping and want to play at optimum, i do not think i will use retro bombs ever.
Carn
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I am/was one, but have been working hard to kick the habit. They certainly are powerfull, and will either be loved by many people for their OAs or feared by them for their shiney new warfleets, 
then all went black ... 
