Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » IT » Really bad 2nd planet
Really bad 2nd planet Sun, 28 March 2004 18:12 Go to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 514
Registered: November 2003
Location: UK
What is the best thing to do if your 2nd planet has really low hab values, or no G ? Is it worth shipping pop back to the HW with a freighter.

I've tried to test-bed it but it there are a ton of variables and I can't figure out a general policy.

On one hand, you can avoid having a third of your population doing next to nothing.

On the other, you need to put some resources into building a freighter, then gate it, fill it and gate it back. If you build it at 2400, send it at 2401, fill it at 2402, it arrives back at 2403 and the population is productive in 2404. The resources that went into building it aren't building mines or scouts.

Also, I've tried using the swashbuckler for this, but it generally can't survive being gated there and back again, and I tend to use that for some close scouting anyway.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Sun, 28 March 2004 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
You can gate the Swashbuckler back and forth if you let it repair for a turn or two at the secondary. It won't carry all the pop, but one load is better then nothing. You could also use the gate&merge option to repair it the same turn, although that might be considered cheating.


- LEit

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1211
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
LEit wrote on Mon, 29 March 2004 04:39

... You could also use the gate&merge option to repair it the same turn, although that might be considered cheating.

When I overgate I regularly merge my ships at arrival. Have a SFX with every fleet of minelayers just for that purpose. IMO that feature is in the same range as chaff, so I'd never call it cheating.
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
Why would merging as a WP1 task be considered cheating ?

Are you objecting to merging with other ships simply to spread the damage ?

That apart, I don't see how it can be equated with chaff at all.
Merging with ships that heal as WP0 and WP1 was surely designed as part of the game, n'est ce pas ?

M

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ozone is currently offline Ozone

 
Warrant Officer

Messages: 115
Registered: April 2003
Location: Twilight Zone
Use the mayflower also for a little extra pop boost.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
mazda wrote on Mon, 29 March 2004 09:02

Why would merging as a WP1 task be considered cheating ?


It is strange for a boot. When you travel, you do not get healed. When you merge at waypoint 1 to fleet that did not move you get healed.

It is not so easy to explain without advanced-level knowledge of game engine behaviour. 2 of 3 things you need to know are not in help file.

1) The movement, being in battle, orbiting planet with dock, containing SFX affect the healing amount (in help file).
2) Waypoint 1 merge occur before healing (not in help file).
3) Check for movement is made only on original fleet to what others merged (not in help file).

So iztok is correct... it is like chaff, unobvious feature gained from undocumented behaviour of the game engine.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 514
Registered: November 2003
Location: UK
Thanks all for the advice. Some nice tips in there.

Just been playing around with a spreadsheet - no idea how valid this is, so please jump in with comments & criticism.

Assumptions:
2nd planet is 30% hab, 2nd planet < 250ly from 1st, 18% PGR, ignore effects of crowding (I'll come back to this).
Privateer gated to 2nd planet (not merged with scout for instant healing), 1 year to repair then fill and ship back with wp1 drop orders.

Results:
In 2420 you will have 2.3 million pop if you don't move pop from the 2nd planet to the homeworld.

If you use the privateer to shift the pop back then in 2420 you will have a total of 2.6 million pop, a 13% advantage.

Changing 2nd planet hab to 88%, the figures in 2020 are 2.94 million on each strategy.

Conclusion:
Unless the 2nd planet is VERY good it makes sense to move the population.

Issues:
The above assume that you can have 2.5 million people on a planet, still growing at 18%. Given that this is not true, what affect will it have. If you start shipping pop off the HW when in hits 25%, moving pop starts you exporting from HW 1 turn earlier.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Staz wrote on Mon, 29 March 2004 17:03

Conclusion:
Unless the 2nd planet is VERY good it makes sense to move the population.

You correctly suspect there is something wrong with 2.5 millions still growing.

Lets say you got some usual growth for IT HG like 18%. Usual game has Acc BBs as one condition. So... with that level of usualness HW has 92,000 pop and other planet has 46,000 pop at turn 0 and HW starts exporting pop around turn 7 without taking anything from second planet.

Growing 20 turns at HW never happens and "VERY good" based on 20 turns growths is probably incorrect. Wink My experience say that this "VERY good" means "above 60%" in reality and even 50%+ is probably "not worth the hazzle".

Carrying back and worth is actually equal to replacing growing 6 turns at second planet with 1 turn of traveling, growing 4 turns at HW and 1 turn of traveling back. Little calculation show that with 65% second planet that was unprofitable trip to make at all accounts. Nod

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 514
Registered: November 2003
Location: UK
Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I know that it is impossible to grow at 18% on HW for 20 turns. My question is how this affects the figures.

Quote:

Carrying back and worth is actually equal to replacing growing 6 turns at second planet with 1 turn of traveling, growing 4 turns at HW and 1 turn of traveling back. Little calculation show that with 65% second planet that was unprofitable trip to make at all accounts


Ah, yes. That's a much better way of looking at it.

Except that with the ferrying you start exporting pop from HW one turn earlier. So, you've sort of gained a turn.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overworked is currently offline overworked

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 403
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Staz wrote on Mon, 29 March 2004 12:58

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I know that it is impossible to grow at 18% on HW for 20 turns. My question is how this affects the figures.

Quote:

Carrying back and worth is actually equal to replacing growing 6 turns at second planet with 1 turn of traveling, growing 4 turns at HW and 1 turn of traveling back. Little calculation show that with 65% second planet that was unprofitable trip to make at all accounts


Ah, yes. That's a much better way of looking at it.

Except that with the ferrying you start exporting pop from HW one turn earlier. So, you've sort of gained a turn.


Or, possibly, you've hit your shipping crunch one year earlier...

- Kurt

Report message to a moderator

Re: Really bad 2nd planet Mon, 29 March 2004 13:16 Go to previous message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
Staz wrote on Mon, 29 March 2004 12:58

Except that with the ferrying you start exporting pop from HW one turn earlier. So, you've sort of gained a turn.


And that one turn's worth of pop goes...

To the secondary of course. Razz

Hopefully you can find a better world.


[Updated on: Mon, 29 March 2004 13:16]




- LEit

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: -F IT
Next Topic: IT gates
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sun Jul 21 03:13:14 EDT 2024