| Planet value after terraforming |
Sun, 07 December 2003 12:04  |
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Does anyone know how to calculate what a planet's eventual value will be after x amount of terraforming ?
I'm at the start of the game (with no terraforming capability), looking at a world and trying to guess what it would be like in the end-game with all three +/-15 terraforming techs.
I've seen the Hab%=SQRT[(1-g)^2+(1-t)^2+(1-r)^2]*(1-x)*(1-y)*(1-z)/SQRT[3]
formula on starsfaq but I'm not entirely sure I understand it. Is it what I am looking for ? If so, can anyone explain what it means ?
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Sun, 07 December 2003 17:35  |
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Thanks.
I've got the formula working thanks to an example I found in the newsgroup (search for "example Loren Slinky group:rec.games.computer.stars"), and it seems to work OK.
As regards terraforming, am I right in thinking that 1% terraforming will move *each* of the values 1 "click" closer to ideal ?
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Sun, 07 December 2003 18:24 |
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Yes you are right. Once click is not (eg)1mR.
I don't think Joseph's expanding hab range idea is correct for calculations although quite correct to answer the question "Can I live there?". I believe you should adjust the planets specs(terraform) to obtain the final terraformed value and calculate with that result.
Incidentally the Stars! Calculator v3.06 available in the KN-2050 download wotsit has a planet value bit...I don't know what formula it uses tho.(I assume the same one)
[Updated on: Sun, 07 December 2003 18:26] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Sun, 07 December 2003 18:32 |
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So, assuming I get max (non-TT) tech I can adjust each value by up to 15 clicks, right ?
I'm building (yet another) utility. One of the things I want it to do is tell me what the _eventual_ value of each planet will be, after the best terraforming I can give it, once I have maxed out my tech.
I think I am pretty much there now.
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Mon, 08 December 2003 13:37 |
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| LEit wrote on Mon, 08 December 2003 18:02 |
Each 1% terraforming will move *one* of the values 1 "click" closer to ideal. I think it moves the one that will give you the biggest % gain in habibility, but that's just from observation, not any testing.
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Thanks - I have just re-read the manual and come to the same conclusion, that each 1% moves one value one click.
As it turns out, I'm not interested in how much 1% terra will improve a planet; all I want to know is what the planet value would be after a total of x% terraforming.
I now have a nice report for my current game that lists each scouted planet with it's eventual value once I have terraformed it to the max - with terraforming tech I don't even have yet!
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Thu, 11 December 2003 04:18 |
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 mazda |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK | |
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I have a grid for values of hab with a 1-immune race.
What it mainly shows is that going from a value that is on the edge of your band to a value that is half-way to ideal is worth a lot more than going from half-way all the way to perfect.
With a 1-immune race, having the other two hab bands right on the edge makes a 14% planet.
Take one hab to 50% it becomes 32%, take both other habs to 50% and the planet becomes 71%.
From then on it is close to linear (e.g. both habs to 75% makes the hab 85%).
Basically the best gains per 1% terra are when the values are just under half-way to ideal.
The worst gains are when one value is good, the other is poor and you are terraforming the already good value.
There is a massive slowdown when you get a hab 50% of the way to ideal (i.e. the hab function is not smooth, which is one reason why we've never got a perfect formula).
Another statistic with 1-immune races is that 1/4 of all initial green planets will be at 75% hab or better (roughly).
So you know how many "breeders" you might expect without using terra.
[Updated on: Thu, 11 December 2003 05:49] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Thu, 11 December 2003 15:40 |
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I've got my program working OK now. It loads in a planet report, I tell it my race details, and it lists me all the planets I've scouted along with what their value will be once I've researched and applied all the terraforming I can get.
Seems to work with immunities as well, but I'm not sure if the formula is supposed to work for non-green planets.
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Mon, 15 December 2003 19:32 |
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| Hatterson wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 18:23 |
Would you perhaps be willing to share your program with the rest of us.
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I'll "release" it at some point, but at the moment it only runs in my development environment, and only because I know the million things that will crash it, and don't do them.
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Fri, 09 January 2004 18:41 |
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| Ron wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 22:28 |
| overworked wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 18:01 |
I'm also looking for a potential site to host the file since I don't have a website for it.
- Kurt
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I'll host it if you want.
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Thanks Ron. I see it's now in the download page.
UGLY_TT.XLS is anyone is interested.
Probably mainly of use for people in a team game wanted to figure out what planets are best suited for which race.
- Kurt
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Fri, 09 January 2004 22:07 |
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| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| Quote: |
Thanks Ron. I see it's now in the download page.
UGLY_TT.XLS is anyone is interested.
Probably mainly of use for people in a team game wanted to figure out what planets are best suited for which race.
- Kurt
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Looks like something I'll add to my collection...Thanks! Ummm, just browsing through the .xls, I note that your hab helper looks broke on the midpoint calculations, or did I have one to many at happy hour?
Shouldn't this-
IF(D33="R",ROUND((F33+E33)/2-50,0)
be-
IF(D33="R",ROUND((F33+E33)/2,0) ???
and
IF(D33="T",ROUND((F33+E33)/8,0)
be-
IF(D33="T",ROUND((F33+E33)/2,0) ???
and
Grav looks off by 1 click at the max end. Probably from a matching error on the .12 vs .125 etc. in the table lookup?
Is that right?
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Sat, 10 January 2004 17:34 |
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| mlaub wrote on Fri, 09 January 2004 22:07 |
| Quote: |
Thanks Ron. I see it's now in the download page.
UGLY_TT.XLS is anyone is interested.
Probably mainly of use for people in a team game wanted to figure out what planets are best suited for which race.
- Kurt
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Looks like something I'll add to my collection...Thanks! Ummm, just browsing through the .xls, I note that your hab helper looks broke on the midpoint calculations, or did I have one to many at happy hour?
Shouldn't this-
IF(D33="R",ROUND((F33+E33)/2-50,0)
be-
IF(D33="R",ROUND((F33+E33)/2,0) ???
and
IF(D33="T",ROUND((F33+E33)/8,0)
be-
IF(D33="T",ROUND((F33+E33)/2,0) ???
and
Grav looks off by 1 click at the max end. Probably from a matching error on the .12 vs .125 etc. in the table lookup?
Is that right?
-Matt
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The Grav will be off a bit due to the low end having those two .12 values next to each other - no way to really tell which is being used.
As for the other mid-point formulas I need to double check those further. The "Hab Helper" was a late add-on to help a bit with the data entry, and I probably didn't test it enough since I had the races from the game I developed it for already worked out.
- Kurt
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Mon, 12 January 2004 19:09 |
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| mlaub wrote on Fri, 09 January 2004 22:07 |
| Quote: |
Thanks Ron. I see it's now in the download page.
UGLY_TT.XLS is anyone is interested.
Probably mainly of use for people in a team game wanted to figure out what planets are best suited for which race.
- Kurt
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Looks like something I'll add to my collection...Thanks! Ummm, just browsing through the .xls, I note that your hab helper looks broke on the midpoint calculations, or did I have one to many at happy hour?
Shouldn't this-
IF(D33="R",ROUND((F33+E33)/2-50,0)
be-
IF(D33="R",ROUND((F33+E33)/2,0) ???
and
IF(D33="T",ROUND((F33+E33)/8,0)
be-
IF(D33="T",ROUND((F33+E33)/2,0) ???
and
Grav looks off by 1 click at the max end. Probably from a matching error on the .12 vs .125 etc. in the table lookup?
Is that right?
-Matt
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Reviewed this again. I think the formulas are right. They're producing a result that is the number of "clicks" right or left of center as the center point of the range. Since all the terraforming is done in "clicks" the Hab Helper is there to help get the race's ranges and center expressed using that as a unit.
Since Rad is all positive values you get the 50 subtracted from the total in order to adjust the factor towards being right or left with a limit of 50 clicks.
Same effect in the Temp calculations since each "click" is four degrees.
As noted also, the grav results skew a bit due to the repeat value. And I seem to recall some 1% variances between spreadsheet values and "real game" comparisons. Most likely rounding error, or the game using integer math where the spreadsheet doesn't.
- Kurt
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| Re: Planet value after terraforming |
Tue, 13 January 2004 13:20 |
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| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| Quote: |
Reviewed this again. I think the formulas are right. They're producing a result that is the number of "clicks" right or left of center as the center point of the range. Since all the terraforming is done in "clicks" the Hab Helper is there to help get the race's ranges and center expressed using that as a unit.
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Ah. That explains it. I was looking at it as the actual centerpoint, not an offset from center.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: Planet value after terraforming