| Re: Macro mineral management |
Sat, 03 January 2004 03:39   |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| alexdstewart wrote on Sat, 03 January 2004 05:06 |
The tactic works better on higher tech levels when there are a lot of slow moving missile battleships and beam weapons are much more powerful... A jammed ultra is capable of sustaining two-three shots at small expense considering, unless you amass a truly large missile fleet.
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And while sustaining two-three shots from the missile ships what is the jammed ultra killing with it's high tech powerful missiles ... ? That's right, scout hulls with a most dangerous x-ray. 
Amass a truly large missile fleet? I don't even have to bring a single missile ship to kill the base! My beamer BB's accompanied by their chaff can do the job just fine.
Sure there are chaff killers but also anti-chaff killers, anti-anti-chaff killers etc.
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This is an advantage in itself as you have to concentrate your forces in one area to take down that starbase, while a retaliation fleet is build somewherelse...
Hmm... starbase's truly dangerous weapons are its stargate and mass driver...
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When plenty of defenses around even the MD is kinda useless except when you can bring some OA's to make the planet negative.
The stargate truly is the most dangerous, all demons of hell can arrive through it at the turn you send in your fleet.
Killing the base the turn before the attack has as only reason to take away that possibility and it is here where an ultra will require a higher investment for you enemy, the missile suicide fleet will have to be larger. You don't even have to arm the ultra, just put as much defense on it as possible ...
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Anyways, there are ways to counterdesign an invasion fleet once you know its composition and performance. Give me the exact specifications and I guarantee that I'll find a way to counter it with an inferior force.  Although this would be outside this topic. 
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I guess we're already outside this topic from time to time, but hard to split this thread up ... 
mch
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| Re: Macro mineral management |
Sat, 03 January 2004 06:11 |
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 iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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| alexdstewart wrote on Sat, 03 January 2004 05:06 |
A jammed ultra is capable of sustaining two-three shots at small expense considering, unless you amass a truly large missile fleet.
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Due to its size orbitals can be jammed only to 75%, not 95%. So with max jamming (75%) and armor (61k arm/20k shields) on your UltraStation I need about 31 BBs with 16 ARM + 4 Nexus and 96 chaff on my side to kill it with first shoot.
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Anyways, there are ways to counter-design an invasion fleet once you know its composition and performance.
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No objection here. But you'll need time to do that. In the same time you'll be loosing planets. So you'll counter-design with smaller econ and less minerals. Also, when I'll see your new design I'll build MY counter-design. And the game will go on, and on, and on ...
BR, Iztok
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| Re: Macro mineral management |
Sat, 03 January 2004 14:04 |
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| Kotk | 
| Commander |
Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
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| alexdstewart |
Also, every time I propose a tactic that would turn your fleet to spacedust, you bring in some new force component in your fleet  .
This streches the limit of credibility. Your original force composition was 15 missile rogues and 40 missile destroyers plus some gatlings coming later on. That I could believe... Even Jihad shacedock can rip huge holes in a relatively shield poor 15 missile rogues and 40 destroyers.
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How so? 15 rogues, no missile destroyers. Missile DD-s were option if SS got good germ at HW and 2 good breeders near HW so Jihad tech well doable by 2430. It is again luck thing. Otherwise rogues. So these rogues and about 30-40 gatling DD-s (what is less important). OR maybe 30-40 bazooka DD-s (that were built earlier to keep unwanted eyes from seeing what SS build). But these are sweepers and skirmishers and for things where they may die. Also 90 bombers as first wave (that is again important).
What is important is that there are at least 60 jihad missiles and at least 300% kill bombers, less than that is too weak. After that (what is also important) at least 40 Gatling cruisers in picture at turn 3 to overhelm the opponent completely. Sure there are some chaffs and minelayers and SFX-es and freighters and what not at SS side but all that is AGAIN not important.
How SS is lost the battle to jihad dock if there was no jihad tech at opponent. There may be was no cruiser tech at opponent. There may be also was no ISB trait at opponent. And every such point affects heavily the contents of initial fleet with what SS attacks. What you want me to give you fully FOOLPROOF recipe with exact ship counts how to kill any race with SS HG at 2435? There is no such recipe.
If opponent gets Jihads and cruisers too SS build more chaff or sacrifice its gatling DD-s or what else it takes to continue winning with unimportant losses. SS fleet present grow all the time when opponent lose even the potential to build something against it.
Actually SS may lose some ships in battles, SS may also go warp 10 with daddy legs/fuel mizers and lose 10% just smiling if it give him victory years sooner. SS gain another breeder where he builds ships and opponent does not. Opponent was not prepared and gets more and more less prepared with every turn. If the first attack was successful all the rest is matter of time.
Wanna example? Lets say the SS did not note opponent built sapper cruisers and has gained Jihads so station + 10 sapper cruisers waiting. Building it took all opponent resources from 2 well built worlds with good germ plus the resources from the Jihad station world. So 3 well built worlds were needed to prepare battle. 15 rogues and 50 gatling cruisers ambushed. Battle result is that SS lost the jihad rogues and maybe few gating cruisers. Opponent lost everything and the world too. Now SS got the 1.5k econ world and lost rogues for 2.6k res. Okay... no rogues anymore. These were planned to scrap in 10 years anyway. It takes 3 worlds one year build to replace the rogues or build something new. Testbed it.
| alexdstewart |
But you are constantly brining in new fleet components- maybe you'll include jugg battleships next time (in 2435)? 
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It is you who are bringing stuff that takes construction 12 or prop 12 and elec 10 and whatever weird things into picture. I never have met such stuff at 2435 despite i have played that game for a decade.
Once i meet it i will think something out. But it is early game war where the midgame war stuff like lots of chaff, jamming, powerful weapons, well built orbitals, chaff busters, anti bomber kamikadzes, big minefields, full built defenses and low shields do not apply.
...
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| Re: Macro mineral management |
Sat, 03 January 2004 15:48 |
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Against your SS suprise, I would be responding with hugh numbers of pre-built low tech hordes. I am not one for waiting till 2450. In my current game, large scale war was initiated around 2430 (I gave 3 years warning 2427 against an early aggressor picking on a weakling), and I am still doing quite well.
But hopefully, I would have already make friends with you and convinced you to find another victim.
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