Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » RWIAB Redux + ideas for RWIAB II <new and improved>
| Re: RWIAB Redux + ideas for RWIAB II <new and improved> |
Wed, 27 August 2003 22:30   |
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 Shadow Whist |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 2 |
Messages: 167
Registered: August 2003
Location: Vancouver, WA | |
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Concerning assigning victory points to an early kill. It seems as if there are different levels of attack upon an enemy.
Each race contributed to the demise of the Sea Monkeys, so perhaps everyone should gain a certain level of points. The three separate actions that led to the Sea Monkey demise were denying the SM the initiative, holding the line, and finishing the SM off. (This is, of course, an assessment based off of the information given by Overworked...)
In the game, events could have happened differently. However, lets work with the concepts.
The initial assault weakens the enemy and takes away growth from the same. The enemy loses ground, struggles to retake territory and attempts to gain the initiative. This diverts resources from expansion, growth and attacks on others.
This action denies the attackers use of resources on other fronts, but the expected outcome outweighs the possibilities of not attacking. The attacker gains the initiative, gains territory and hopefully distracts the enemy player's mind.
Holding the line against an enemy that has been weakened is not typically as risky as the initial assault. The weakened player cannot achieve a higher tech level so the larger player can use either fewer ships or the older designs. Any advanced can be slowed or halted within a short period of time. Therefor this involves less risk.
The final part is the elimination of the enemy. If they have fallen significantly behind the tech curve then mopping up the enemy would be pretty easy. And hold even less risk.
In order to determine points, there should be some sort of point ratio that would determine the resources, tech levels, and ships against the same of the enemy in relation to the amount of damage done.The amount of points awarded should be based off of the amount risk associated with assaulting the enemy and the damage done.
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| Re: RWIAB Redux + ideas for RWIAB II <new and improved> |
Thu, 28 August 2003 08:35 |
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| Shadow Whist wrote on Wed, 27 August 2003 22:30 |
Concerning assigning victory points to an early kill. It seems as if there are different levels of attack upon an enemy.
Each race contributed to the demise of the Sea Monkeys, so perhaps everyone should gain a certain level of points. The three separate actions that led to the Sea Monkey demise were denying the SM the initiative, holding the line, and finishing the SM off. (This is, of course, an assessment based off of the information given by Overworked...)
In the game, events could have happened differently. However, lets work with the concepts.
The initial assault weakens the enemy and takes away growth from the same. The enemy loses ground, struggles to retake territory and attempts to gain the initiative. This diverts resources from expansion, growth and attacks on others.
This action denies the attackers use of resources on other fronts, but the expected outcome outweighs the possibilities of not attacking. The attacker gains the initiative, gains territory and hopefully distracts the enemy player's mind.
Holding the line against an enemy that has been weakened is not typically as risky as the initial assault. The weakened player cannot achieve a higher tech level so the larger player can use either fewer ships or the older designs. Any advanced can be slowed or halted within a short period of time. Therefor this involves less risk.
The final part is the elimination of the enemy. If they have fallen significantly behind the tech curve then mopping up the enemy would be pretty easy. And hold even less risk.
In order to determine points, there should be some sort of point ratio that would determine the resources, tech levels, and ships against the same of the enemy in relation to the amount of damage done.The amount of points awarded should be based off of the amount risk associated with assaulting the enemy and the damage done.
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I heartily concur with your analysis. A "kill" is often not such a clean-cut result that it can easily be identified and credit partitioned.
And you can also add that the risk factor is often appreciably higher early in the game (greater risk for greater reward you could say) since often when one starts an early war you're trading off economic growth that the other races get in exchange for potential real estate benefits by killing or strangling a neighbor to get territory.
One of my criteria for looking at revised VCs is that the data collection/decision making couldn't be too complex and involved since such would involve looking at a lot of turn files - especially if that had to be done every turn. And, in this case, it's quite variable how one values the effort and risk taken.
Thus, for now at least, I've looked to other areas. Thanks for the commentary though since I think it's educational in terms of strategic analysis.
- Kurt
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| Re: RWIAB Redux + ideas for RWIAB II <new and improved> |
Thu, 28 August 2003 15:34 |
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| alexdstewart wrote on Thu, 28 August 2003 13:10 |
Since military/economic/scientific power of -f races depends so much on territory and since this would be small/sparse with few planets. Wouldn't it be easier to to set the victory conditions to say 40% of all planets alone or 75% in allience? It is fairly difficult to achieve but still MM is manageble since there are so few planets. I also don't like the time limit, but that's my own pref. Maybe the race number shouldm't be restricted either....?
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Well, first of all the RWIAB II games are in a small/packed. You might have been confused by my remark about RWIAB I being played in a medium/normal as a step up from my preferred galaxy set-up of medium/sparse.
A 2500 time-limit is there so that there will be a definable end date in case things reach a solid status quo. This also allows a player to *know* that the game will end by rough end date in case they need to take in consideration real life conditions.
- Kurt
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| Re: RWIAB Redux + ideas for RWIAB II <new and improved> |
Thu, 28 August 2003 18:57 |
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| Shadow Whist |
| Chief Warrant Officer 2 |
Messages: 167
Registered: August 2003
Location: Vancouver, WA | |
|
| Quote: |
One of my criteria for looking at revised VCs is that the data collection/decision making couldn't be too complex and involved since such would involve looking at a lot of turn files - especially if that had to be done every turn. And, in this case, it's quite variable how one values the effort and risk taken.
Thus, for now at least, I've looked to other areas. Thanks for the commentary though since I think it's educational in terms of strategic analysis.
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I agree that looking at each races' files every turn would be way too time intensive... What if the observer race could receive the public player scores?? could they then use that information to compute a score. (I have no idea if this is possible or not. I have not played with the game code before.) If you can set the PPS as a victory condition, would it be possible to send it to the observer race, or dump the info to a text file that only the host could observe??
[Updated on: Thu, 28 August 2003 18:58]
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| Re: RWIAB Redux + ideas for RWIAB II <new and improved> |
Thu, 28 August 2003 21:21 |
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| Shadow Whist wrote on Thu, 28 August 2003 18:57 |
| Quote: |
One of my criteria for looking at revised VCs is that the data collection/decision making couldn't be too complex and involved since such would involve looking at a lot of turn files - especially if that had to be done every turn. And, in this case, it's quite variable how one values the effort and risk taken.
Thus, for now at least, I've looked to other areas. Thanks for the commentary though since I think it's educational in terms of strategic analysis.
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I agree that looking at each races' files every turn would be way too time intensive... What if the observer race could receive the public player scores?? could they then use that information to compute a score. (I have no idea if this is possible or not. I have not played with the game code before.) If you can set the PPS as a victory condition, would it be possible to send it to the observer race, or dump the info to a text file that only the host could observe??
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There's no way that I know of to generate the PPS information for only a single race.
The intent for RWIAB II is have it available for *only* the last ten turns (if things run that long). This will help me with my "modified" scoring. I could probably gather this information using the individual turn files if necessary. I was doing "surveys" this way every 10 turns in RWIAB I. That was the source for the numbers I put in the game review.
However, it's an interesting option that I'll mention to the Freestars designers as something to potentially take into account for when they get to the point of expanding the code base.
- Kurt
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