Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module
Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 17 August 2011 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ForceUser is currently offline ForceUser

 
Lt. Junior Grade
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 383
Registered: January 2004
Location: South Africa
gible wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 22:44

The catch is they don't generally have any pop loaded.


And that's prolly why you haven't noticed this bug in the many years playing Smile It should be pretty easy to spot Wink



"There are two types of people in the world. AR players and non-AR players" Nick Fraser

Working on some new stuff: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/stars-nova/index.php?t itle=Graphics
And the Mentor Database www.groep7.co.za/Mentor/ ZOMGWTFBBQ!! it still works lol!
Check out my old site with old pics at www.groep7.co.za/Stars/

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 17 August 2011 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
ForceUser wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 17:20

BUT do the minerals suddenly appear as if there was a module on the ship?

I got two messages at colonizig:
1) "The Spore Cloud was dismantled for 37kT minerals..."
2) "The Spore Cloud(2) was dismantled for 4kT minerals..."

No cheap mineral fountain available. Game "knows" how many minerals went into Spore Cloud(2), it just didn't discard its ability to colonize.

BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 17 August 2011 07:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
gible wrote on Wed, 17 August 2011 00:49

they can see planet hopping ships (100% of the time unlike penscans), can do limited planet scanning, can be used to ping stuff

Not if they were dismantled to colonize. This bug could hurt your cheap anti-hoppers defense a lot. Hit over head



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 04:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
I think this is a pretty clear cheat, but the question is what to do about it. There are legitimate reasons to send non-colonisers with Colonise orders, and it's not easy to notice the bug's use since it's an eco exploit and not a military one.

Like I said, the use of this bug would make ARs far more viable, so I'd suggest games encouraging ARs allow it.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 10:48

There are legitimate reasons to send non-colonisers with Colonise orders,

None of them would carry pop around, would they? Whip


Quote:

and it's not easy to notice the bug's use since it's an eco exploit and not a military one.

Ship mass would give them away, particularly if used by ARs with dying colonists en route. Sherlock

While not every race could be closely monitored near its core worlds, I'm pretty sure anything dodgy going on near the borders would be noticed quickly.


Quote:

the use of this bug would make ARs far more viable, so I'd suggest games encouraging ARs allow it.

ARs weak spot is "Kill Starbase" orders, not econ. AR is the perfect -f race as it is. Hit over head



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Void is currently offline Void

 
Ensign

Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7
m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 05:37

magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 10:48

There are legitimate reasons to send non-colonisers with Colonise orders,

None of them would carry pop around, would they? Whip

Probably only some of the initial ships like the Swashbuckler. But as an initial ship, there's no opportunity for it to have the hidden 'coloniser' capability.

Cheers,
Void

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 07:37


Quote:

the use of this bug would make ARs far more viable, so I'd suggest games encouraging ARs allow it.

ARs weak spot is "Kill Starbase" orders, not econ. AR is the perfect -f race as it is. Hit over head

But AR often struggles with minerals early on. Magic was probably suggesting that AR would be able to build lots more colonizers without the mineral-expensive orbital construction modules in early years.



BlueTurbit Country/Rock

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
In one of the early Glacier games I was an AR and built a number of colony ships without colonisers AND they carried pop
(used for boosters and transports)

A 3i AR will probably use this kind of ship (although normally with a fuel pod unless fuel pods are banned)
It would be a bit hard to check to see if they were exploiting this unless they were totally blatant.



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 17:27

But AR often struggles with minerals early on.

I'm often struggling with minerals early on, regardless of PRT. Too many stars, never enough ships... Rolling Eyes


Quote:

AR would be able to build lots more colonizers without the mineral-expensive orbital construction modules in early years.

Of course they would. As would most everyone else. The question is: do we want or need that? Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
joseph wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 18:04

I was an AR and built a number of colony ships without colonisers AND they carried pop (used for boosters and transports)

And did they target uninhabited worlds? With Colonise orders? Sherlock


Quote:

A 3i AR will probably use this kind of ship (although normally with a fuel pod unless fuel pods are banned)

This bug only works if you leave the used-to-have-a-col-module slot empty. Pirate


Quote:

It would be a bit hard to check to see if they were exploiting this unless they were totally blatant.

Indeed. Near a race's core worlds it wouldn't be easy to keep tabs on what was going on. But farther out, where neighbors were likely to be actively scanning everything, and even trying to grab it for themselves, an alien colony popping out of nowhere would surely be noticed. Rolling Eyes

Like many other bugs/exploits, actually. Whip



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 14:01

BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 17:27

But AR often struggles with minerals early on.

I'm often struggling with minerals early on, regardless of PRT.


Not as much as AR races.
"1) What AR lacks in early and mid game is iron: first for ships, then for bases and more ships, and lastly for remote miners. What AR has in excess after ultras are built is germ."

Quote:

Too many stars, never enough ships... Rolling Eyes

Typical AR situation. Very Happy

Quote:

AR would be able to build lots more colonizers without the mineral-expensive orbital construction modules in early years.


Quote:

Of course they would. As would most everyone else.

Not as much as AR races.
"1) What AR lacks in early and mid game is iron: first for ships, then for bases and more ships, and lastly for remote miners. What AR has in excess after ultras are built is germ."

Quote:

The question is: do we want or need that? Pirate

I don't. But I usually don't play AR, and I'm not the one suggesting AR could use a boost. Perhaps ask your partner, Forceuser, about that. Smile



BlueTurbit Country/Rock

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 24 August 2011 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 22:14

I usually don't play AR, and I'm not the one suggesting AR could use a boost. Perhaps ask your partner, Forceuser, about that. Smile

Nope, he doesn't need that kind of boost either. UFO



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 07:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
joseph wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 18:04

I was an AR and built a number of colony ships without colonisers AND they carried pop (used for boosters and transports)


m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 24 August 2011 20:10

And did they target uninhabited worlds? With Colonise orders? Sherlock


No they didnt - because I was not aware of the bug AND because it would not have worked because I made them from scratch rather than copying my inital coloniser and removing the module.

However IF anyone ever plays in a similar game, its a valid and useful ship design AND the host will only be able to spot you cheating if s/he looks at a turn and there are ships heading for empty worlds with colonise orders.


[Updated on: Thu, 25 August 2011 07:04]




Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 07:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
joseph wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 13:02

it would not have worked because I made them from scratch rather than copying my inital coloniser and removing the module.

I guess then that you use Colonizer hulls with only engines and no fuel or cargo pod as boosters and freighters? Or that was just for that particular game? Shocked

Also, does this bug work only when copying the initial designs or copying any other colonizer design would also trigger it? Sherlock


Quote:

the host will only be able to spot you cheating if s/he looks at a turn and there are ships heading for empty worlds with colonise orders.

Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem. Rolling Eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 21:44

Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem. Rolling Eyes


Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM? Laughing

Also, HE at least have a legit reason to be flying empty colonisers around.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 14:32

Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM? Laughing

Or NAS. Or a decent spy network. And a calculator for comparing shipdesign weights. And a penchant for noticing when a non-standard colonizer keeps zipping around instead of just disappearing into a new colony. Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
Was only in a particular game where FM, fuel pods and fuel transports were banned.
In this case a colony ship with just an engine was the best early booster I could build.

As such ifI had known about the bug and if I was a cheater I could
1) Built a load of ships that could exploit the bug AND that I could justify having (in a normal game simply having these ships would be an indication you were cheating)
2) Use them to colonise any world in a 1 year jump (only very careful host checking would spot this - other players would have no chance)
3) Send them out to "boost" genuine colony ships, but actually colonise with the cheat ships - leaving the genuine ship to move on and colonise another (bit more risky this one, if the host is checking every turn they might notice, also a player with scans and ships at worlds I was colonising might notice if they were really paying attention)

So I stand by my statement - in a normal game this cheat is easy to spot, you have weird ships with an empty slot.
In a game where fuel pods are banned it is hard to spot


[Updated on: Thu, 25 August 2011 15:40]




Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 00:32

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 21:44]Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem. Rolling Eyes


Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM? Laughing

Also, HE at least have a legit reason to be flying empty colonisers around.

Actually...scrap everything I said about using minicols for that...they always have fuel tanks. don't know what I was thinking.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Thu, 25 August 2011 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
gible wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 08:53

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 00:32

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 25 August 2011 21:44]Anyone with half-decent eyes will spot these too and could tip the Host to the problem. Rolling Eyes


Presumably by "half-decent eyes" you mean WM? Laughing

Also, HE at least have a legit reason to be flying empty colonisers around.

Actually...scrap everything I said about using minicols for that...they always have fuel tanks. don't know what I was thinking.



Not always. The minicol hull is SO cheap that it's actually not much more expensive to use empty minicols, and they scoop more and chaffsweep more.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 30 August 2011 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
This does bring up an odd issue for bugs, since, unlike almost all the other Bugs, it actually affects the economy.

Do testbed records achieved with this bug count?

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 14 September 2011 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
goober wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 23:13

... but some folks out there, myself included at times, can be very fussy about such details.


WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH WTH and ninjas

Report message to a moderator

Colonization Module Check Thu, 15 September 2011 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
Colonization Module Check

Report message to a moderator

Re: Colonization Module Check Fri, 16 September 2011 03:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
neilhoward wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 04:15

Colonization Module Check


What

Report message to a moderator

Re: Colonization Module Check Fri, 16 September 2011 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BeeKeeper is currently offline BeeKeeper

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 214
Registered: December 2007
Location: Devon, UK, GMT
magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 08:25

neilhoward wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 04:15

Colonization Module Check


What



The recently discussed trick of how to colonise without a colonisation module.

http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=491 0&rid=1162&S=437ab210abbdc3e588f52b6a7807922e&pl _view=&start=0#msg_51832

Report message to a moderator

Re: Colonization Module Check Sat, 17 September 2011 06:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
BeeKeeper wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 18:12

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 08:25

neilhoward wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 04:15

Colonization Module Check


What



The recently discussed trick of how to colonise without a colonisation module.

http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=491 0&rid=1162&S=437ab210abbdc3e588f52b6a7807922e&pl _view=&start=0#msg_51832


Umm... that's this exact thread.

Also, just saying those three words doesn't mean much.


[Updated on: Sat, 17 September 2011 06:03]

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: DOS Box Serial shenanigans..
Next Topic: XBorders not saving data?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Apr 15 23:36:59 EDT 2024