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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 22 May 2007 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Innocence wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 14:49

LOL, yea but if micro management pays off players WILL micro manage.


As well they should, since the "No thanks, I'll micromanage my 1500+ freighters by myself" option will always exist. Rolling Eyes

But other players should be able to choose NOT to micromanage, or at least not so extensively, without losing all their chances to win for their "lazyness"

Quote:

Removing freighters as seperate ships doesn't necessarily mean removing raiding and disruption. You could still do blockades and if desired implement an abstract system where minerals sent to system are captured if the system is under blockade.


Well, blockading is different than raiding. Razz Also, that "abstract system" needs to be not much more complex than plain freighters and also appeal to the Pirate that everyone of us is at heart. Pirate


Quote:

This might even give the Mass Drivers a comeback - they're not much used as it is. Perhaps then PP will finally be a PRT worth playing Smile


The trouble with PP is scarcity of minerals. Allow them to fling pop too and we'd be talking some progress. Twisted Evil


Quote:

As for SS and SD they're very strong PRT's regardless of raiding freighers or not Smile


Well, with CAs, JoaTs, ISs, and even ITs no longer needing to protect their civilian shipping, their Econ advantage would increase. Confused


Quote:

I'm all for automating certain features, but if you leave an opening for the player to make adjustments you need the automation to be 100% effective or the player will end up micro managing anyway.


90% or even 75% effective could be enough, as long as it keeps MM to a minority portion of every turn. Sherlock


Quote:

I recall reading about this. However I don't see the need of such a bank - the minerals should still be present on each system - I'm only out for the freighters Smile


Bank -> taxes/reserves/centralized research -> justification for automated pop migrations and "third-party" mineral/goods shipments. Bounce Also enabling "economic warfare", whatever that would mean for Stars. Teleport

All in all a not quite welcome loss of control, where Total Control is one of the few key features of Stars. Cool

Quote:

Anyway, ask ten players and you'll get ten different suggestions on how to change/improve/remove a feature. My point is merely that adding a crapload of features to Stars! and removing all limits (like ship designs) wont necessarily make it a better game.


Again, wholeheartedly agree. Nod



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 22 May 2007 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Innocence is currently offline Innocence

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 15:35

But other players should be able to choose NOT to micromanage, or at least not so extensively, without losing all their chances to win for their "lazyness"
That's the ticket exactly. I guess if you put hard work into automation you could make it work 90-95% as effective as MM, making MM much less desirable Smile

Quote:

Well, blockading is different than raiding. Razz Also, that "abstract system" needs to be not much more complex than plain freighters and also appeal to the Pirate that everyone of us is at heart.
Hehe, aaaargh! Yes, I see your point. The satisfaction of raiding a freight convoy is far superior to simple blockading a planet Smile Fun is what games are for after all.

Quote:

The trouble with PP is scarcity of minerals. Allow them to fling pop too and we'd be talking some progress.
Actually that's a very good idea! It make take som balancing, but it'd surely bring the PP on par with the other PRTs.

Quote:

All in all a not quite welcome loss of control, where Total Control is one of the few key features of Stars.
So true Smile

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Sun, 27 May 2007 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sirgwain is currently offline sirgwain

 
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Hi all,

I just received an email from Ken. He is in hospital for 12 weeks and wanted me to let everyone know that Nova is on hold for a while. I don't know what happened, I'm assuming his wife or kids emailed for him. Everyone wish him well. Smile

-Craig

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Sun, 27 May 2007 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Trifler is currently offline Trifler

 
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+1 for support of a Stars! clone that will run under 64-bit XP/Vista (32-bit mode is fine).

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 28 May 2007 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 09:35

Innocence wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 14:49

Removing freighters as seperate ships doesn't necessarily mean removing raiding and disruption. You could still do blockades and if desired implement an abstract system where minerals sent to system are captured if the system is under blockade.


Well, blockading is different than raiding. Razz Also, that "abstract system" needs to be not much more complex than plain freighters and also appeal to the Pirate that everyone of us is at heart. Pirate


The mineral moving system need not be freighters. How about using the stargates? You still have to use freighters initially, but once a stargate is built it could become part of the mineral moving network subject to whatever strictures. IT mineral movement should obviously be more efficient/quicker over long distance etc. IT may also get advantage of mineral movement completion before battle, while everyone else gets it after battle. This would also mean that HE would need to be able to build stargates, but only for mineral transfer. As to the raiding/pirating side of things ... how about the possibility of interrupting a mineral transfer when you kill a starbase and gaining the minerals if you have some freighters/cargo space with you? Could Robber Barons/Pick Pocket scanners steal a percentage automatically if in orbit as a transfer goes through?

I'm sure folks can come with other possibilities.



Goober.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 28 May 2007 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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goober wrote on Mon, 28 May 2007 15:24

The mineral moving system need not be freighters. How about using the stargates? You still have to use freighters initially, but once a stargate is built it could become part of the mineral moving network subject to whatever strictures. IT mineral movement should obviously be more efficient/quicker over long distance etc. IT may also get advantage of mineral movement completion before battle, while everyone else gets it after battle. This would also mean that HE would need to be able to build stargates, but only for mineral transfer.


Well, it still seems plain Freighters would be simpler than all these significant changes. Rolling Eyes

Quote:

As to the raiding/pirating side of things ... how about the possibility of interrupting a mineral transfer when you kill a starbase and gaining the minerals if you have some freighters/cargo space with you? Could Robber Barons/Pick Pocket scanners steal a percentage automatically if in orbit as a transfer goes through?


All battle debris, including that of Bases, rains down on planets, same as packets. So you'll need to actually take the planet to steal them, or use Robber Barons... Deal

Quote:

I'm sure folks can come with other possibilities.


Simpler, faster, better alternatives, if possible. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 28 May 2007 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sirgwain is currently offline sirgwain

 
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Trifler wrote on Sun, 27 May 2007 18:29

+1 for support of a Stars! clone that will run under 64-bit XP/Vista (32-bit mode is fine).


Does the original Stars! not run under Vista 64 bit? I wouldn't be surprised. Vista 64bit does some wacky stuff with the system directory/registry. If you have trouble, you might try copying the stars.ini from the windows/system32 directory into whatever the 64 bit one is.

-Craig

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 28 May 2007 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Innocence is currently offline Innocence

 
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sirgwain wrote on Sun, 27 May 2007 23:04

Hi all,

I just received an email from Ken. He is in hospital for 12 weeks and wanted me to let everyone know that Nova is on hold for a while. I don't know what happened, I'm assuming his wife or kids emailed for him. Everyone wish him well. Smile

-Craig
Thanks for the info, and all the best to Ken. Sounds bad, hope he'll recover fully.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 29 May 2007 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 28 May 2007 10:02

goober wrote on Mon, 28 May 2007 15:24

The mineral moving system need not be freighters. How about using the stargates? You still have to use freighters initially, but once a stargate is built it could become part of the mineral moving network subject to whatever strictures. IT mineral movement should obviously be more efficient/quicker over long distance etc. IT may also get advantage of mineral movement completion before battle, while everyone else gets it after battle. This would also mean that HE would need to be able to build stargates, but only for mineral transfer.


Well, it still seems plain Freighters would be simpler than all these significant changes. Rolling Eyes .


Hmmm. Not sure how it's more complicated. Your Freighter management system presumably can only work with the freighters available. Sounds like the same with gates. The freighters have to be sent to a place pick up minerals and take them where they are wanted by the automated system. With what I suggest they just get shunted via stargates. For IT the freighters should go via gates if available or space if not. If a gate is being built at a planet, perhaps the freighters should wait until its built. Seems simpler to do it just by gate. The freighters would require tech/minerals ... so do the stargates. Managing stargate upgrades/availability would surely be simpler than freighter upgrades/availability in optimising mineral movement. Giving HE stargates that won't let them travel through them doesn't seem so awkward.

Quote:

As to the raiding/pirating side of things ... how about the possibility of interrupting a mineral transfer when you kill a starbase and gaining the minerals if you have some freighters/cargo space with you? Could Robber Barons/Pick Pocket scanners steal a percentage automatically if in orbit as a transfer goes through?


m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 28 May 2007 10:02


All battle debris, including that of Bases, rains down on planets, same as packets. So you'll need to actually take the planet to steal them, or use Robber Barons... Deal


So what's the big deal about a % of those falling into SS hands if they have the right scanners in place? Or anyone elses for that matter if they have the cargo space. This seems to fit with folks desire to have pirating options and be able to reap the reward of killing starbases or getting your mineral stealers in range.

Quote:

I'm sure folks can come with other possibilities.


m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 28 May 2007 10:02


Simpler, faster, better alternatives, if possible. Twisted Evil


There is a faster, simpler system for moving stuff round the stars universe than using stargates? ... must of missed something in the help files Razz

Variation on theme: you learn how to create and control the wormholes in Stars! space for mineral transportation at prop5 say. On building any type of orbital over your world you automatically put a wormhole in place for such purposes. At prop 13, your control of wormholes is such that you can also send pop through too. Your automated system can now manage pop and minerals.

Effectively you just the MM management system in place with a specious cover story.





Goober.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 29 May 2007 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
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Here we go again.
Some people take some tactical aspect that they find boring, or can't be bothered to do, label it as micro-managing in order to denigrate it, and then want it removed from the game.

Can I ask why some aspects are considered unnecessary hassle, whilst other stuff is considered an essential part of the game ?
Perhaps someone would like to not have to bother where to move their warships - just tell the computer which planets they want to take and let it get on with it.

Maybe you just want a game where all you have to do is make strategic decisions ?

But for me, moving minerals to where they are most useful is just as important as laying/sweeping minefields.
I know I never do enough of either !



I am the God of hell fire, and I bring you

... Brian Pithers

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 29 May 2007 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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goober wrote on Tue, 29 May 2007 15:04

Hmmm. Not sure how it's more complicated. Your Freighter management system presumably can only work with the freighters available. Sounds like the same with gates. The freighters have to be sent to a place pick up minerals and take them where they are wanted by the automated system. With what I suggest they just get shunted via stargates. For IT the freighters should go via gates if available or space if not. If a gate is being built at a planet, perhaps the freighters should wait until its built. Seems simpler to do it just by gate. The freighters would require tech/minerals ... so do the stargates. Managing stargate upgrades/availability would surely be simpler than freighter upgrades/availability in optimising mineral movement. Giving HE stargates that won't let them travel through them doesn't seem so awkward.


That means changing Gate capabilities, giving Gates to a race which didn't have them, forcing everyone to wait until they got basic Gate tech and could build them everywhere, and basically making every race a flavor of IT, which would do wonders for the IT's usefulness to all others, too. Shocked

Whereas freighters are ships, just like warships, SFXs, bombers, and whatnot, and cargo can be added to just about any hull, and you need it anyway to grab debris and packets, trade with the MT and move pop unless you want to use pop-flinging massdrivers too. Rolling Eyes

So we'd be using the old Freighter system, somewhat altered, or even simplified, and the new Gate system, with all its potential balance-altering issues for blockades, pillage, overgating, etc... Sherlock


Quote:

As to the raiding/pirating side of things ... how about the possibility of interrupting a mineral transfer when you kill a starbase and gaining the minerals if you have some freighters/cargo space with you? Could Robber Barons/Pick Pocket scanners steal a percentage automatically if in orbit as a transfer goes through?


Sounds fair, but what about deep-space pillaging? And battle debris, and packet-stealing, and MT-trading... Also, minefields would lose one of their sieging abilities: that of denying mineral shipments to get thru. Confused

Quote:

So what's the big deal about a % of those falling into SS hands if they have the right scanners in place? Or anyone elses for that matter if they have the cargo space. This seems to fit with folks desire to have pirating options and be able to reap the reward of killing starbases or getting your mineral stealers in range.


Anyone having a "pirate" scanner can grab any minerals they want anyway, perhaps only a strategically important mineral type, and not just a percentage of all. Everyone else needs a "pirate" scanner, which makes the SS races ppl you want to befriend and not just kill on sight. Twisted Evil

Quote:

There is a faster, simpler system for moving stuff round the stars universe than using stargates? ... must of missed something in the help files Razz


Supernova proposed a pan-galactic Banking system, linking all planets and races, and enabling stock-exchange economics and economic warfare. Which solved some problems and created others, of course, not least of which was the paradigm shift of all cargo ops. Teleport

Quote:

Variation on theme: you learn how to create and control the wormholes in Stars! space for mineral transportation at prop5 say. On building any type of orbital over your world you automatically put a wormhole in place for such purposes. At prop 13, your control of wormholes is such that you can also send pop through too. Your automated system can now manage pop and minerals.


In other words: IT on steroids for everyone. Razz

Wormhole control has been proposed before, but not that complete.


Quote:

Effectively you just the MM management system in place with a specious cover story.


Yeah, freighters are low tech, and gating cargo/pop thru interstellar distances is high-tech and the realm of a few races only. As specious as they come. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 30 May 2007 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Innocence is currently offline Innocence

 
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mazda wrote on Tue, 29 May 2007 16:04

Here we go again.

I see your point. However, I'm not looking for a "Win the game for me"-button Smile

The player should manage his own fleets, minerals, minefields etc., but good game-design/UI is about levaing the player the freedom to choose in a way that doesn't add unnecessary micromanagement.

Minimizing MM doesn't automatically mean limiting or removing features. It can be done by automating certain features and optimizing the UI to display all important data to the player when he needs them.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 30 May 2007 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
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mazda wrote on Tue, 29 May 2007 10:04

Here we go again.
Some people take some tactical aspect that they find boring, or can't be bothered to do, label it as micro-managing in order to denigrate it, and then want it removed from the game.

Can I ask why some aspects are considered unnecessary hassle, whilst other stuff is considered an essential part of the game ?
Perhaps someone would like to not have to bother where to move their warships - just tell the computer which planets they want to take and let it get on with it.

Maybe you just want a game where all you have to do is make strategic decisions ?

But for me, moving minerals to where they are most useful is just as important as laying/sweeping minefields.
I know I never do enough of either !


Smile

Personally, I enjoy the economy building together with the inherent mineral pop and mineral movement required and I have no particular desire to see it automated.

In the late game, when you have a large number of planets and there is a lot of work to do to keep things running it does become a chore: I'd prefer to be able to concentrate on minelaying/sweeping/skirmishing/poring over scans to find that elusive enemy fleet and the like. With this in mind, I wouldn't be averse to just being able to set my production queues and having a mineral management system that would move the minerals between my planets in my clear region of influence so I didn't have to worry about it. I tend to just shift a big chunk of minerals to particular planets and they are my production centres. I'd be happy with something that did something as coarse as that. I'd be even happier if I could automatically designate a particular planet as a base for all new ships and then they made there way there by the quickest available route,merging as they go, so I could then distribute them where I wanted them. I usually have to spend what seems like an age setting this up via the routing command.




Goober.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 30 May 2007 04:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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goober wrote on Wed, 30 May 2007 09:16

I wouldn't be averse to just being able to set my production queues and having a mineral management system that would move the minerals between my planets in my clear region of influence so I didn't have to worry about it. I tend to just shift a big chunk of minerals to particular planets and they are my production centres. I'd be happy with something that did something as coarse as that.


Private experiments show that is indeed doable:

Deal find which production center will need minerals after the current turn's production
Deal find which nearby mineral piles will sit unused
Deal match the two by distance/availability of freighters
Deal do almost the same for breeders/colonies/maxed-out worlds
Deal use the same freighter(s) for several related runs. Build more freighters if needed

I found the last point to be somewhat elusive, and planning for more than one turn requires the assumption that building Qs/priorities won't change too much. Whip

Special situations, such as AR mineral Fountains supplying the owner and allied races weren't contemplated. Sherlock


Quote:

I'd be even happier if I could automatically designate a particular planet as a base for all new ships and then they made there way there by the quickest available route,merging as they go, so I could then distribute them where I wanted them. I usually have to spend what seems like an age setting this up via the routing command.


Well, once setup, routing works pretty well. Allowing for "routes" to use the necessary intermediate stops, for refueling or to avoid overgating, would be nice, although perhaps not worth the hassle. Teleport

But you pointed out something that's been lurking on my mind since forever, and that Stars partially does already when "merging" with a planet:

Deal create a new "merge" flavor such as "merge with possible identical tokens" on arrival or perhaps "merge with any fleets carrying the same merge flag AND route"... Cool


[Updated on: Wed, 30 May 2007 06:10]




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 30 May 2007 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 30 May 2007 04:39

Deal use the same freighter(s) for several related runs. Build more freighters if needed

I found the last point to be somewhat elusive, and planning for more than one turn requires the assumption that building Qs/priorities won't change too much. Whip


I envisaged some kind of tick box mechanism. You check the box if the planet is to be a production centre. You put what you want in the production queue and flag the intention for it to be a long term plan.

Regardless of whether such a mechanism is in place, I'd also really like to be able to update multiple production queues at once.

Quote:

Well, once setup, routing works pretty well. Allowing for "routes" to use the necessary intermediate stops, for refueling or to avoid overgating, would be nice, although perhaps not worth the hassle. Teleport


Again, I'd be happy with something coarse I could adjust. As long as the majority of the links in the network are reasonable, you'd only have to change a relatively small number. I envisage the route lines appearing after the application of some heuristic algorithm and me being able to shift and adjust them.

Would something similar work for mineral movement management? You run your mouse pointer/double click over the transport routes for that turn and a little pop up message tells you it's routing such and such minerals to such and such place for such and such production and you can delete/modify them. So it would be more of a mineral management tool/reminder/prompt rather than an actual automated system.

Quote:

But you pointed out something that's been lurking on my mind since forever, and that Stars partially does already when "merging" with a planet:

Deal create a new "merge" flavor such as "merge with possible identical tokens" on arrival or perhaps "merge with any fleets carrying the same merge flag AND route"... Cool


On reflection, it's the little things such as that, along with being able to do various kinds of multiple changes that would make the biggest difference to my enjoyment of the game and reflects something Innocence was saying about the UI. I don't want, where possible, to be doing the same tasks, over and over again each turn, when a change to the UI would make it a straightforward one time command/update for that turn.



Goober.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 30 May 2007 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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goober wrote on Wed, 30 May 2007 12:46

I envisaged some kind of tick box mechanism. You check the box if the planet is to be a production centre. You put what you want in the production queue and flag the intention for it to be a long term plan.

Regardless of whether such a mechanism is in place, I'd also really like to be able to update multiple production queues at once.


So, more or less, whip up a "planet report" and tick/select the planets you want, then assign a previously defined prodQ (hopefully including ships, bases, packets...) to all of them. Simple and client-side and handy as should be. Cool

Quote:

Again, I'd be happy with something coarse I could adjust. As long as the majority of the links in the network are reasonable, you'd only have to change a relatively small number. I envisage the route lines appearing after the application of some heuristic algorithm and me being able to shift and adjust them.


Something like selecting the planets you want from the Planet Report and tell them "Route to X". Then, as part of the overall "route optimizer/detangler/unsillyfier" assign reasonable intermediate waypoints to those routes. Teleport

I've often dreamed of a lil button that, once I've painstakingly adjusted a ship's route by hand, would allow me to "save route as" and "assign as default" that route for all ships that follow... Deal


Quote:

Would something similar work for mineral movement management? You run your mouse pointer/double click over the transport routes for that turn and a little pop up message tells you it's routing such and such minerals to such and such place for such and such production and you can delete/modify them.


Yeah, something derived from the Fleet Report, and dealt with in much the same way as when a "Patrol" ship tells you it's selected a new target. Only the "mineral advisor" would need to tell you why some planet is gonna run out of mins, while the nearby colony has surplus stuff...

As I see it, the "advisor" would point out which planets need which minerals, and suggest the most likely sources for those, hopefully after sorting out most of the simpler 1-to-1 trips where a freighter was available (or at least idle and close by) and then the player would need to decide what to do with the (hopefully few) remaining routes where there's no freighter, or the amount demanded is bigger than the available surplus... Whip

Quote:

So it would be more of a mineral management tool/reminder/prompt rather than an actual automated system.


My own thoughts, too, as it would be rather difficult to make it 100% automatic/perfect and player input would be routine anyway. Rolling Eyes

Quote:

it's the little things such as that, along with being able to do various kinds of multiple changes that would make the biggest difference to my enjoyment of the game and reflects something Innocence was saying about the UI. I don't want, where possible, to be doing the same tasks, over and over again each turn, when a change to the UI would make it a straightforward one time command/update for that turn.



So true. Nod



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Sun, 22 July 2007 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
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cool stuff...Hope the stars will soon be like that.

If the game is made to be really good then that is not an excuse to avoid adding a crapload of features.

ever though about wanting to forcibly capture ships.
IMO it would be a logical addition to WM specialties.
Depending on the size and battle ability of WM fleet it would be able to capture a respective percentage of enemy freighters, scouts, bombers, and other unarmed or lightly armed utility craft.

Then related to this addition I suggest to not have ship designs limited to 16. If you want to have your conventional ships and ships transferred/captured by/from allies and those given by MT then this limit is ridiculous for a immense empire that you run.

The more realistic like the game would be in it's aspects the more interesting it would be to play it.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 23 July 2007 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Neo the White wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 14:52

ever though about wanting to forcibly capture ships.
IMO it would be a logical addition to WM specialties.
Depending on the size and battle ability of WM fleet it would be able to capture a respective percentage of enemy freighters, scouts, bombers, and other unarmed or lightly armed utility craft.


Sounds good, but currently those ships are assumed to flee beyond range while the big boys are busy battling it out. Many fine tacticians rely on that "feature". Whip

I guess at the very least a new "battle-plan" would be needed for unarmed ships/bombers: stick around the battle-site and risk to be captured, or flee the battle ASAP and forgo your duties (such as bombing)? Rolling Eyes


Quote:

Then related to this addition I suggest to not have ship designs limited to 16. If you want to have your conventional ships and ships transferred/captured by/from allies and those given by MT then this limit is ridiculous for a immense empire that you run.


Makes a lot of sense. Only there still should be a slot limit to curb the more sucessful "pirates". Pirate


Quote:

The more realistic like the game would be in it's aspects the more interesting it would be to play it.


There's a tradeoff between realism/awesomeness and playability/enjoyability. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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icon7.gif  Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 15 August 2007 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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As Arnie would say "I'm back".

I've restarted work on Nova and it now has a battle visualisation dialog. See http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ken-reed/Ken/MainWindow.htm for details.

The Nova website has been generally updated with the latest screen-shots taken under Windows Vista (Nova is now tested under XP and Vista and seems to work fine under both systems).

As far as Nova is concerned it now contains all of the core functionality of the first version of Stars!. There is a lot of detail missing but that's all it is ... detail. The hard bits are done so it really is just "filling in the blanks" now (extending if or case statements and such like). I'll get around to doing this when time permits.

Next on my list of things to do is a "binary" release so that anyone can play with it without having to compile the beast. I hope to get that done in the next week or two.

Feel free to take a look at the updated web-site and tell me what you think. Smile



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Thu, 16 August 2007 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TomT64 is currently offline TomT64

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 45
Registered: August 2003
Hi Ken,

I have learned C# as well and would like to help out. Let me know how I can do so. My email is tomt64 AT gmail

-Adam



- TomT64
GStars! - A FreeStars Client (currently dead)
http://gstars.sf.net/

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icon7.gif  Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Fri, 17 August 2007 03:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 92
Registered: December 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Hi,

I hate to admit this but I consider Nova as a personal learning project (I did have ideas of opening it up to the world in general but found that I just couldn't "let it go"). I've loads of ideas to try out but it would just take too long to explain what I'm thinking about.

As an aside, I got a binary install project working last night (at 2:00 am ... I don't sleep much due to some medication I'm taking at the moment). It needs work but it's basically functional. I'll include that in the next release so non-developers can start to play with the beast if they like).

As far as Nova is concerned, download the source code and have a good bit of fun playing with it. Ton's of stuff to do but ... Hey! ... have fun. Mail me the details of anything you are happy with and I'll plug it into the project. Also, tell me about any problems and I'll fix them in the code base.

Just remember, Nova is not work. It's fun! Play, enjoy and learn (I've learned C#, ASP .Net, XHTML and CSS just from this little project ... that can't be bad).

Right. I'm off to start working on clearing the major problems in the bug list (I'm on leave today). Should keep me busy for a while.

Cheers!

Ken

PS Check out the updated web site.



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Sat, 18 August 2007 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ekolis is currently offline ekolis

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 51
Registered: May 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

Hey Ken,
I've got a question for you... Wink
See, I've been working on my own 4X game lately, and I've had some trouble with the save/load code. I initially tried saving the game by simply calling on a library called "XStream" to dump everything to an in-memory XML representation (actually several - one with all data for the host, and then one with only the data that each player knows about for each player), and then I zipped that up and saved it to some files. Problem is, that was really slow because the XML representation was absolutely HUGE so it took forever to create it and zip it up. Also, savegames would be incompatible if I changed even the slightest thing in the game classes. I then tried using a library called "Hibernate" to put it all in a database (the DBMS is called "Derby" and it's only 2MB and is really easy to set up a database with programmatically!) and then zip up the database, but it took forever for Hibernate to create the database schema. (Though I guess I could just generate the code to create schema once and save it to a file included with the game so that file could just be run against the database; I'm not sure yet if the slow part is creating the code or executing it against the database!) So I was wondering how you handled saving and loading in your game... have you come up with any clever solution that I might want to borrow? Or are you just using something like the binary serialization built into .NET? Razz (I haven't tried Java's binary serialization yet; I figured that would make things *really* incompatible between game versions!)
Thanks!
-Ed



Mr. Flibble says...
Game over, boys!

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 92
Registered: December 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
I used to love doing stuff myself. Now I've got old and there just isn't the time. I use the .Net framework to save games and such like. Here is the code:

string turnFileName = ConsoleState.Data.GameFolder + "\\Nova.turn";

FileStream turnFile = new FileStream(turnFileName,FileMode.Create);

Formatter.Serialize(turnFile, GlobalTurn.Data);
turnFile.Close();

Easy!

Ken



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
geraintwd is currently offline geraintwd

 
Civilian

Messages: 1
Registered: August 2007
Hi guys, I'm not a programmer or anything like that so I can't actively contribute, but I'd just like to give you all two thumbs up for your continued efforts to keep this magnificent game alive. I'm in the process of setting up a dual boot system so I can play Stars!, as I'm currently running XP Pro 64 which can't / won't run Stars! (unless you know of any way to force it to run?).

In the meantime I've discovered an online space strategy game called Ferion (www.ferion.com). Nowhere near the depth of Stars, but it's totally browser-based so there's no client to download and turns are generated in realtime from the server (one every hour). It looks interesting so far.

Anyway, as a Stars! fan I wish you all good luck with your efforts and I will be keeping an eye on this forum in the hope that your labours bear fruit!

G

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 92
Registered: December 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
I'm running Virtual PC (it's a free download from MS) under Vista (which is crap). I've got XP installed (came with my previous PC) and Stars! runs just fine.

I've spent a very happy morning fixing bugs! The simple things in life ...

Ken



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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