Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » HST Editing...
 HST Editing... |
Mon, 24 November 2003 02:35  |
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I wonder, how many of you have tried to edit the HST files?
How many managed to gain any success?
And I also wonder how many would be interested in trying again.. This time with some help from someone who's got a fair handel on how things work in those files?
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Mon, 24 November 2003 04:07  |
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No no no.. I'm not doing this for cheating! It's not cheating when you make a new map or scenario or something.. People are always saying "Oh I wish I could move my HW over there" or whatever. My interest is primarily map editing. Not cheating. Moving planets around isn't considered cheating. (By most). This is just about making new scenarios... new kinds of games that couldn't be done through the random nature of the game.
Edit:
And who's Greg Vorbarra?
[Updated on: Mon, 24 November 2003 04:09]
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Mon, 24 November 2003 13:23 |
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Maim is hosting a game called Super King Of The Hill (I'm playing) - basically is a super charged version of king of the hill.
He screwed around with a few random planets and now they've got all kinds of "super" attributes.
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Mon, 24 November 2003 14:18 |
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Yup. I used my skills and created a theme game. Since the process would make me overly aware of the game's key secrets (that is, I know where the hidden "Hills" or super planets are and what's on them.) I've resigned myself to being a super trade race. Helping everyone equally. And I even created my own currency which is handeled outside the game. So in game, I trade for nothing, much as is done in reality, since money is neither edible nor useful in any other way but the way it was intended for, (it's just fancy used paper most times). So far everything's going super.
I of course have abdicated all my powers to influence the game on a fundemental level (hst editing) when I posted it on AH. So all the changes I left in effect at year 0 are frozen there.
So yeah.. I'm just asking this cause it allows players to enjoy more theme oriented games. And there's a lot of places in the host files that are unexplored... I could do it myself.. But.. Thought someone might like to help out.
And the only section of the HST file I know anything about really is the planet section. And even some of that is random in it's effects (cause I don't comprehend how the data/works is when it's unencrypted.)
Oh! "Captain Maim is always looking for ways to change the game itself (and for everybody I hope )."
yes I am! I'm part way done with writing my own editor for it, so yeah I mean if anyone wants me to make them some special modified game hst file. Pass it over with the XY and I'll take a crack at it, try and 'gives the peoples what they wants'.
Besides, unless the THEME of the game was "Kill the really big guy" or something that. I'd never alter the files to make myself or another, strong with the intent of pumbling my neighbors, or playing favorites, just for my own pleasure. The game would be over really quick if I did or once they figured it out. Therefore I see no purpose or fun in that idea. So unless that's the original intention of the game. I think players would just quit. And I'd get labeled a "Bad host" and that would probably be the end if it all.
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 25 November 2003 03:46 |
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Okay I just got done writting up my own HST map editor. (intended for 0 year use, but can probably work well at any point.)
Since the program happens to be written in my native programming language (Batch). It's totally exposed source code. (truely open source, since you CAN'T distribute the software without the source:) )
As I see it I've 2 or 3 options I have to contribute to the community. (C of course doesn't contribute anything at all)
A) release it, watch it get picked apart and rebuilt into something better.. or worse..
B) just offer my services to anyone who wants a custom tweak to the HST file. Single player games included..
C) hoard it all for myself! which isn't as much fun, but I could...
D) hold onto it, but see if anyone else wants to help decode other parts of the host file, and help out... Which was part of the intent of this thread..
As a note, all Auto Host games are totally immune cause you can't get the HST file back. Plus in order to properly edit a planet you must visit it first. (So for most of you, that means backing the file up and driving ships out and collecting data to use on the original hst file. Or using StarsED and uberfying your scanners, either way, same deal, even I have to something like that...)
So what'll it be guys? Me, I'm voting for B. Or D maybe.
(Can be used for those games that require extra starting G)
[Updated on: Tue, 25 November 2003 06:55]
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 25 November 2003 10:37 |
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 mlaub |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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A) release it, watch it get picked apart and rebuilt into something better.. or worse..
This would be my vote, if I understand this correctly. So, please enlighten me. Does this mean that you can move a planets position? horizontally AND vertically? If so, this would be a boon for making specialized games.
I remember setting up 1 game with 4 teams of 3, 1 team per map quadrant. What a pain! I gave up on map ed, at the time, and had to just start trying random seeds. I think the whole process took 8 hours.
Later, 1 of the players from that game wanted to do something similar, and asked if I would create his game. I got lucky with that one, and it only took 3 hrs, IIRC. Yuck.
Yes, a utility that would circumvent that work would be welcome. especially if it fixed the starting ship location problem, too.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 25 November 2003 18:10 |
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---Taubat: I can swap HW's semi easily (perfect duplicates) (Only minor result is game starts as normal but at an odd year, course I might even be able to fix that, I found the year once before I found StarYear.exe, I'm sure I could manage it.) However my attempts at generating new ones [HW's] has come to complete failure. But If you wanted to make the premise of or like a sub quest, find your original Homeworld. That could be kinda fun.. Maybe.
One exploit you can make off this is... Like for a KOTH or CTF style game. Where say you gen with all the HW's are in the center of the map somewhere. I move all the players out in such a way as the only thing they lose is: 1 starting ship and the starting mines and factories (and the solid 30% extraction <sniff>). But all lose that so it should be okay. All the new Homeworlds (PP and IT can also be moved easily this way) will be terraformed to suit the races EXACTLY and I can even let the host decide the MC for all the important (Home and True Home Worlds). Sound like a reasonable enough compromise?
---mlaub: It's still my wish to do so (and the original reason I took it upon myself to try), but doing it at year 0 properly means I'm missing 2 pieces of understanding. How to work the "Owner" byte(s) correctly, and how to make artificial HWs. However swaping's easy, I just start all races off with a special Nubian colony ship, move those who need swaping. Suspend the populations of all those who don't, Upon arrival, I force terraform the HW's to match their new owners. (cheapen starbases so they can be built without effort [1 year effect]. And everyone starts basically at year 1, even if the clock says otherwise.) (as for AR and IS I've got plans for how to minimize or remove population loss/gain. AR being the trickyest of the two.)
Or like I said to Taubat, I can make a non HW class planet just as good environmentally, all it'll lack (unfortnately) is the HW tag which isn't cooperating with me.
(Oh and "B"'s winning right now A1 B2 C0 D0)
--Chagarra: Your clearly only interested the "purity" of all stars games. So don't join my games, so far your doing great at 1 for 1! (And to keep consistancy, any map reshaped games probably count as "impure" as well. So keeping away from those as well might be a good idea.)
[Updated on: Wed, 26 November 2003 02:13]
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Mon, 15 December 2003 01:08 |
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oh, and option A rules! Lets the rest of us play around and find new uses you might not have thought of (yet)!
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Mon, 15 December 2003 01:17 |
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LOL.. I think I would have when I started, but... It's probably safer if I keep hold of it. And you give me ideas and I'll work them out..
Oh, and as for generating with surplus races. Assuming your not going for a full house.. That could work. Plus you get extinct races. Cause enviroment and MC are easy to adjust, I've got 100% control over that, but that darn HW byte is just.. I dunno.. Need more data to figure it out.
But if you did a team game like that pentagon map. The only REALLY important thing I need to do is get the HW's in the right places, Who owns what isn't as important as that the HW's in where they need to be. And all PP and IT 2nd worlds can be cloned and moved. Heck I could even just swap the values and truck the people over in freighters. Odd year start but besides that you'll never know the difference!!! Solves all KINDS of problems!
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 16 December 2003 04:09 |
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Hmm... That gives me some ideas... For the sequal to a game I've got going already.. Just an idea for how to make next time even better! Thanks!
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 16 December 2003 13:24 |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| Captain Maim wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 02:46 |
Okay I just got done writting up my own HST map editor. (intended for 0 year use, but can probably work well at any point.)
Since the program happens to be written in my native programming language (Batch). It's totally exposed source code. (truely open source, since you CAN'T distribute the software without the source:) )
As I see it I've 2 or 3 options I have to contribute to the community. (C of course doesn't contribute anything at all)
A) release it, watch it get picked apart and rebuilt into something better.. or worse..
B) just offer my services to anyone who wants a custom tweak to the HST file. Single player games included..
C) hoard it all for myself! which isn't as much fun, but I could...
D) hold onto it, but see if anyone else wants to help decode other parts of the host file, and help out... Which was part of the intent of this thread..
As a note, all Auto Host games are totally immune cause you can't get the HST file back. Plus in order to properly edit a planet you must visit it first. (So for most of you, that means backing the file up and driving ships out and collecting data to use on the original hst file. Or using StarsED and uberfying your scanners, either way, same deal, even I have to something like that...)
So what'll it be guys? Me, I'm voting for B. Or D maybe.
(Can be used for those games that require extra starting G)
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Contribute to the community? IMO you are treading on dangerous ground with issues that could possibly involve the future security of Stars! games. Not that we don't already have enough cheaters that have been caught trying to manipulate games and in the process ruining games with weeks and months of wasted time for many good players. And who knows how many have slipped through without detection. JRC4 is enough proof of that!
Offer "A" is in itself a potential pandora's box that you are offering to spread around. HST files contain critical security issues that you may help others to crack by your analyzing them and offering your discoveries to others. How do you know what others will do with the info you have analyzed in an attempt to acquire even more info using yours as a starting template? Every piece added to the puzzle just makes it more possible for someone to solve the mystery. In this case it involves the integrity of Stars! games.
You say AutoHost games are totally immune? Does the host file not get sent in with the game files when applying for a position on AutoHost?
Don't ruin a good game in an effort to "contribute to the community". Be careful that in your attempt to contribute you don't maim the game.
I would rely on the wisdom of Jeff McBride in a discussion about HST files a couple years ago:
| Quote: |
We will never, ever, produce utilities to merge, dump,r edit, spindle, fold or mutalate Stars! game files. Nor will we condone the creation of such utilities by others. This may seem like a hard core attitude but one of our primary goals is to keep some semblance of security in multiplayer Stars! games. If there is a feature that we feel is needed we will add it to Stars!.exe. In order to allow other people to write such utilities we would have to make too much information public. Publishing the Stars!
file format, encryption scheme and serial number algorythem would totally elimenate all security in Stars!.
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http://groups.google.com/groups?q=HST+edit+group:rec.games.c omputer.stars&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.g ames.computer.stars&selm=866879173.5748%40dejanews.com&a mp;rnum=2
...
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 16 December 2003 15:04 |
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So how is it different than editing the exec with stars ed and making everything cheap or free and just giving yourself ships and stuff?
Ultimately I decided to just offer services. Option B I think. It's not that bad really. The thing I do best (and don't rail on me for this) is control the weather and MC's of planets. So if you wanted to move say.. An IT 2nd world I'd start by picking up the people. Leaving their old world, flying them (probably at warp 10) to their new home, hack terraform the planet to be an exact replica of their home. And colonize. Same goes for swapping HW's Which could be VERY good in games where it's required to have people in a curtain arraingment. That's primarily what I'm offering. Secondarily I can cause some erratic "improvements" to planet infrastructure or surface riches. But that's all hit and miss work really.
Hope that's some consolation to some of you... I'm just providing a service.
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| Re: HST Editing... |
Tue, 16 December 2003 15:59 |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| Captain Maim wrote on Tue, 16 December 2003 14:04 |
So how is it different than editing the exec with stars ed and making everything cheap or free and just giving yourself ships and stuff? ....
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Maybe there is little difference. I don't necessarily agree that hacking .exe file is a good thing for the Stars! community in the first place. God only knows how many cheaters have used the Stars ed hacking as a guide to finding new ways to cheat. After all cheating and hacking are close companions in the computer world.
At least, or at least we think so, the Stars ed modified games require that all players have a custom .exe file on their system in order to play the game.
But with hacked HST files this may not necessarily be the case. It could be that a cheater could host a game he is playing in with possibly a hacked HST file to give him unfair advantages. So IMO people who are hacking and collaberating to hack game files are opening the door to cheaters even wider when this knowledge is spread to others. After all, when two people know a secret, it is no longer a secret. If cheaters obtain certain knowledge they would not hesitate to use it to their selfish advantage. That is their nature.
My point is that hacking game files is not a good thing for the gaming community in general. And passing or sharing the discoveries with others is possibly even more detrimental. In your mind, perhaps you are only trying to help add diversity to games, but what about in the deviate mind of a cheater? To use an analogy, a gun is not dangerous in itself. It all depends on whose hands the gun is in.
Therefore I agree whole heartily with Jeff's philosophy about game security. He should know about security issues. He has written several patches because of this. Even AutoHost has had upgrades dealing with security problems.
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