| Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Mon, 11 November 2002 19:40  |
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[From moderator: these messages moved out of Strategy section.]
And that's why I'm not gonna join the Navy as a frigate crewman. 
[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2002 21:44] by Moderator
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Tue, 12 November 2002 17:48  |
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you are probably safer in a dinghy
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Mon, 18 November 2002 21:00 |
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A USS Destroyer up against an Iraqi Frigate. ???
dont know how they look .
[Updated on: Mon, 18 November 2002 21:00]
ccmaster
King of the TradersReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Tue, 26 November 2002 17:53 |
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Righty here my 2 cents
Frigates - great for scout hulls and mine layers. Wonderous JOAT+SS ships. Good chaff (there is a design that is ignored by beamers and attacked by missile ships - perfect).
Destroyers - more armour than frigates and just as good for add ons. Good idea with these is to crack on a single sheild and a Nexus then add on 2 omegas. Couple with some BIG heavy armour+heavy sheilds+jammers and a good battle speed (and maybe a few weapons!!!!!) and suddenly you got heavy as hell cannon fodder with cheap effective support ships.
In REAL life - i couldn't care less. I'd rather be at home with a cup of tea. <<leaves to turn o kettle>>
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Wed, 27 November 2002 14:11 |
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1. smaller craft can be decisive - like chaff in stars.
2. in stars u can build a ship with enough firepower to rip apart chaff. They have beam weapons not missiles.
3. Regenerative sheilds against weak enough beam weapons = invincible ship (independance day style).
4. Star wars and star trek are an entertainment medium designed to enthrall and be interesting. Dog fights are cool. Stars! has great depth and not a great number (if any) fancy good looking bits. As such it's a strategy game, one of design and counter design.
As a final point I think chaff is totally realistic. Show me an air to air missile that can impact 2 targets in one go. Missiles are slow fire single shot weapons, laser type weaponry would be rapid fire multishot weapons with a huge number of variable abilities. You just have to stop looking at chaff as a warship/cheat and more like a big giant flare/HIT ME sign.
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Mon, 02 December 2002 18:56 |
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 tech25 |
 | Petty Officer 3rd Class |
Messages: 49
Registered: November 2002 | |
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What is the design spec for frig. that would be attacked by missle but not by beam? Humm, a more general question is in order. What makes a ship attractive to missles? What makes a ship attractive to beams? Both assume standard kill orders
tech25
[Updated on: Mon, 02 December 2002 19:01]
Anyone can learn from loosing ...
an excepional individual learns from winning
David Drake
Email me: ---tech25@--yahoo.com---Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Sun, 08 December 2002 06:07 |
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The main difference between laser weaponry and missile weaponry is what can go wrong. You cant use electronic warfare on a firing laser. A firing laser can't run out of fuel. Lasers don't have engines that can fail. You don't get dud lasers. Lasers cannot be intercepted by point defense weaponry.
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Sun, 12 January 2003 15:48 |
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| zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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| tech25 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2002 15:56 |
What is the design spec for frig. that would be attacked by missle but not by beam? Humm, a more general question is in order. What makes a ship attractive to missles? What makes a ship attractive to beams? Both assume standard kill orders
tech25
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I've seen discussions here about shielded chaff, and until I see it done successfully I don't believe what you want is acheivable.
I tried it once, made THOUSANDS of frigates using a single cheapest shield on each, and the missile boats ignored them. I can't remember for certain, but I think the beamers ignored them too. All I can remember is despairing at all the USELESS chaff I had made. Luckily, it wasn't a determining factor in the game since I had minerals and resources up the whazoo anyways.
I also have some vague recollection about testbedding them, and meeting with some occasional (albeit rare) successes by splitting them into much smaller groups. Seemed to be based on group sizes of all the ships involved and since I'm not a game mechanics guru or a mathematician, I couldn't figure it out. I'd recommend that you accept chaff as disposable resources, maximize their attractiveness to the missileboats, and NEVER try shielded chaff in a multiplayer game. Just going to be a headache for ya, and once your opponents discover the traits of your mega-chaff fleet they're going to laugh and exploit the fact that in reality, you have lots of cheap useless ships and NO CHAFF!
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Sun, 12 January 2003 16:25 |
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It works like: Missiles do half damage to armor.... lasers must go through full shields first..... so the lasers go for stuff easier when not looking at shields, while missiles halve the shield power for targetting reasons.
That would require a specialized fleet to be sure. Can't shield that BB John... the lasers might ignore it.
The idea I think also requires that you use the best, NOT THE WORST, shields you have.
I don't remember, but are the Dps for shields and not armor stacked when looking at attractiveness?
Email me as ----jeffimix@----yahoo.com----
(remove dashes)
The spamatron! run!!!Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Mon, 13 January 2003 02:20 |
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why not just play around with the battle attractiveness calculator? It's the easiest way to avoid building useless chaff.
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| Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats') |
Thu, 30 January 2003 11:47 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Quote: |
I've seen discussions here about shielded chaff, and until I see it done successfully I don't believe what you want is acheivable.
I tried it once, made THOUSANDS of frigates using a single cheapest shield on each, and the missile boats ignored them. I can't remember for certain, but I think the beamers ignored them too. All I can remember is despairing at all the USELESS chaff I had made. Luckily, it wasn't a determining factor in the game since I had minerals and resources up the whazoo anyways.
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And don't forget you luckily had a wonderfull expert WM ally too!  
Hm and IIRC the enemies omega nubs (the HE in the SE corner called the Walkers) were not shooting at the not shielded chaff either?
| Quote: |
I also have some vague recollection about testbedding them, and meeting with some occasional (albeit rare) successes by splitting them into much smaller groups. Seemed to be based on group sizes of all the ships involved and since I'm not a game mechanics guru or a mathematician, I couldn't figure it out. I'd recommend that you accept chaff as disposable resources, maximize their attractiveness to the missileboats, and NEVER try shielded chaff in a multiplayer game. Just going to be a headache for ya, and once your opponents discover the traits of your mega-chaff fleet they're going to laugh and exploit the fact that in reality, you have lots of cheap useless ships and NO CHAFF!
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In another game I wanted to try shielded chaff again, it was a teamgame and one of my teammates was a number cruncher (which I'm totally not), he ran several tests in excel with various designs and came to the conclusion that it was just too risky.
According the graphs he showed me that chaff would be less attractive to missiles at some points during the battle. It all depended on how much shields dropped of the main beamer force etc. Don't remember much details anymore.
Also miniturization is important and of course your new designs have to be tested again, once you have your shielded chaff in 1000s ...
regards,
...
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Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats')
Re: Frigates vs Destroyers (moved from Strategy topic 'Cheats')
