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MT toy scrapping

Tue, 12 November 2002 09:44

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

Hi everybody,

i would like to know if somebody has experience with scrapping/wolf-lambing MT toys...

i have some more or less subjective testbed results,
which lead to some assumtions, can somebody confirm?

- is it true that shooting down MT-toys give better chances
than scrapping?

- is the number of toys per fleet relevant or the number of
toys per ship? i have the feeling that a fleet with 100 ships
containing 1 item are less effective than 20 ships with 5 toys
each...

- can i gain a new tech-level by scrapping/pop-drop/wolf lamb
AND a toy in the same turn? if not, does the tech hinder the
toy, or is it chosen randomly? so, if i try to get the toy,
do i need to stop pop-dropping?

- what are the exact formulas for scrapping? are they verified?

- i had one MT who gave 3 lifeboats to me in one shot... ever
before i always got only 1.... (it was a 5000kT frighter).
the lifeboat is the nubian-type ship!
on what does the number of ships depend? i thought it is only
1 lifeboat and 2-3 mini-morphs regardless of numb.of.minerals,
so i was really surprised when i got 3 of the nice large ones...

thanks for any comments

robert

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Tue, 12 November 2002 13:41

overworked

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 403
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Robert wrote on Tue, 12 November 2002 09:44

*** I doubt it. And if the toy is more important than tech you definitely want to scrap (see below.)

Quote:

- is the number of toys per fleet relevant or the number of
toys per ship? i have the feeling that a fleet with 100 ships
containing 1 item are less effective than 20 ships with 5 toys
each...

*** Per fleet if the previous research messages I've seen are correct.

Quote:

- can i gain a new tech-level by scrapping/pop-drop/wolf lamb
AND a toy in the same turn? if not, does the tech hinder the
toy, or is it chosen randomly? so, if i try to get the toy,
do i need to stop pop-dropping?

*** I don't think you can get tech and toy in the same turn. I think it might check for tech first in any case. And I don't recall seeing research indicating someone has specifically studied which order it occurs in.

*** as for stopping pop-dropping it depends on method. You can get tech from scrapping, pop-dropping, or battle (wolf/lamb). These take part in different parts of the turn - so you can do multiple methods. The order is scrapping, waypoint 0 pop-drop, battle, waypoint 1 pop-drop. So if you scrap and fail your pop-drop might still get you tech anyways.

Quote:

- what are the exact formulas for scrapping? are they verified?

*** I think there have been published formulas from people studying this. Using Google and searching rec.games.computer.stars newsgroup will lead you to a *lot* of articles.

Quote:

- i had one MT who gave 3 lifeboats to me in one shot... ever
before i always got only 1.... (it was a 5000kT frighter).
the lifeboat is the nubian-type ship!
on what does the number of ships depend? i thought it is only
1 lifeboat and 2-3 mini-morphs regardless of numb.of.minerals,
so i was really surprised when i got 3 of the nice large ones...

*** Random number of ships. I've seen lifeboats given out in number from 1-3 and the other ships from 1-6. So it might just be a weighted "roll" and the number of lifeboats is 1/2 the rolled number rounded down. Just a guess, not studied.

HTH

- Kurt

[Updated on: Tue, 12 November 2002 15:58] by Moderator

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
- Groucho Marx

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Tue, 12 November 2002 16:19

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

thanks for that news...

but one thing i would also like to ask:

once i read/heared that tech-gain is _not_ depending on
order of events... seemed strange to me first, but i can
remember some occasions where i had some pop-drop (wp1) and
_lots_ of scrappers and got tech from pop-drop...

and what i heared is, that the game engine selects one tech
from all occasions randomly...

well, cant remember where i heared that, and have just some
situations in which this was a possible explanation for not
getting tech from 30 or so scrappers, but from pop-drop...

but still i cant believe, as also the in game messages state
at which point tech was gained...

does anybody have experience with this???

would help a lot...

robert

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Wed, 13 November 2002 17:57

Apelord

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 99
Registered: November 2002

Couple of clarifications:

Tech gain is possible from Invasions, MT Greets, Scrapping, Ship Battles and your own Research. It IS subject to the order of events. I.e. if you are running a pop drop operation and someone scraps ships or you have battles, you first chance for tech will be from battle, then scrapping, then pop dropping. This can be important if you are trying to get specific tech (i.e. weapons from your ally, but that dirty CA sends in a dozen bio tech scanner ships to force you to gain bio levels from fighting him instead of weapons levels from your ally for example).

You can get only get one level from combat/invasion/scrapping per turn hence once you have gained a level (and it checks when the event occurs) you are done and no more checks occur.

You CAN get tech and Toy plans in the same turn but NOT from the same event. Chance to get MT plans are based on #of parts in the fleet scrapped and # of fleets scrapped. Tech is checked PER FLEET. You will not get tech and MT plans from the same fleet being scrapped. You can get tech and plans in the same turn however.

"The object of war is not to die
for your country but to make
the other bastard die for his" -George Patton

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Wed, 13 November 2002 18:22

BlueTurbit

Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas

Is this the new order?

Quote:

you first chance for tech will be from battle, then scrapping, then pop dropping.

If scrapping with possible tech gain is first in the order of events. And waypoint 0 ground combat with possible tech gain follows shortly thereafter. And fleet battles with possible tech gain are way down the list around 19 or so. How is it that your first chance for tech will be from battle? Teleport

BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Thu, 14 November 2002 03:21

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

thanks for that clear words...

but are you really sure battle is before scrapping???

this is against all i heard, read and experienced...

and if this was a just a mistake,

are you _really_ sure you can get a toy and tech in the
same round? (from different occasions?)

this is quite important to me in one game now...
and i really must know...

robert

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Thu, 14 November 2002 08:46

FurFuznel

Lt. Junior Grade

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 437
Registered: November 2002
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Robert wrote on Thu, 14 November 2002 03:21

but are you really sure battle is before scrapping???

FYI

At the Stars! FAQ web site they list the order of events (see http://www.starsfaq.com/order_events.htm ). According to that list scrapping occurs as the very first event before everything else.

FurFuznel

Shadallark <==> FurFuznel
Mental anguish is for those who choose to think - FurFuznel
running Mac OS X 10.6.7

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Re: MT toy scrapping

Thu, 14 November 2002 11:39

Apelord

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 99
Registered: November 2002

Scrapping is first, followed by waypoint 0 battles (manual pop drops), space battles, then waypoint 1 battles(pop drop at the end of move). Thus if you are operating a planetary swap, you can use scrapping without interrupting the planetary system if you wish to have a specific level transferred.

Yes you can get a toy AND a level in the same turn, BUT you will not get a toy and a level from the same event. Conventional wisdom used to be that you scrapped 5-6 fleets, each containing 25 parts in order to maximize your chances to transfer the MT Toy. 6 battles/pop drops/scrap events yields the highest % chance to learn a tech for the investment. I haven't tested MT toy transfers for a long time (MT appears to be geared to show up based on current tech or something. It is strange but when I was a rookie MT's entered quite frequently, however over the last few years MT's show up once or twice at best...), and I did find that under older patches (h-patch) certain toys never seemed to transfer (eg HushABooms).

"The object of war is not to die
for your country but to make
the other bastard die for his" -George Patton

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