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battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 08:03

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

hi

some questions:

- do bombers count as unarmed when ships have order to "attack unarmed first"

- do mini-bombers that dont carry a bomb (just an engine) count as bomber for the targeting order?

you may ask why i want to know... it is the IS orgy i want to build chaff for...

so what is the best chaff?

- empty mini-bomber?
- scout (frig) with cargo-pod?

what is the best orgy design to prevent someone "snipering" it?

speed, jammers and shields?
if you use chaff, then not much jamming is needed... so better
add OTs to make them move 2.5 with full load?

any ideas welcome

robert

2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 08:46

The Taubat

Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 263
Registered: December 2002

bombers do not count as unarmed ships.im not sure wheather or not they are counted as bombers if you dont put bombers on them.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 September 2003 08:46]

Royal Sha'a'kar of the Taubat people

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 09:06

mazda

Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK

Robert wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 13:03

- do mini-bombers that dont carry a bomb (just an engine) count as bomber for the targeting order?

so what is the best chaff?

what is the best orgy design to prevent someone "snipering" it?

I would say yes, mini-bombers always count as bombers (99% sure).
It's a hull-type thing, not a slot component thing.
So putting a cargo pod onto something shouldn't make it into a freighter (I hope).

So best chaff to stop a kill freighter tactic would have to be a small freighter.

So, if we can stop long-range snipering by using chaff (combined with a high speed retreat) then all we have to fear is a suicide beam attack.

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 09:22

iztok

Commander

Messages: 1209
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe

mazda wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 15:06

- do mini-bombers that dont carry a bomb (just an engine) count as bomber for the targeting order?

No. I just recently did a testbed (had the same problem Smile

), and it just didn't work. It has to have a bomb on it.
BR, Iztok

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 09:39

mazda

Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK

iztok wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 14:22

mazda wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 15:06

- do mini-bombers that dont carry a bomb (just an engine) count as bomber for the targeting order?

No. I just recently did a testbed (had the same problem Smile

), and it just didn't work. It has to have a bomb on it.
BR, Iztok

Well, on the basis of the duck test, that feels wrong to me.
In effect your targetting ship would be acting on information that it didn't yet possess (that the bomber wasn't a bomber), although I suppose that all designs are known the instant they enter battle.

So I assume freighters are the same ? Anything that can carry is a freighter.

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 10:24

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

ok, so 3 things are not clear

1.) is a frigate with a cargo pod targeted as a freighter?
2.) is a bomber without a bomb targeted as a bomber?
3.) is a bomber targetd as unarmed? (so when the sniper orders ships to target unarmed first, does bomber-chaff help?)

you can only take "unarmed" or "bombers AND freighters" as targets... so empty mini bombers might be good for chaff....

what if i arm a ship with a cargo pod. it will count as freighter and move forward. so maybe the sniper does not move forward and will have trouble later to attack the real bait???

questions over questions... there must have been others who put some thinking into how to protect their orgies...

anybody out there?

robert

2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 11:07

LEit

Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT

You can also target freighters directly, so you should drop the idea of mini bomber chaff.

1.) A frigate with a cargo pod counts as a freighter.
2.) A bomber without a bomb is not a bomber.
3.) A bomber with a bomb is armed. A bomber without a bomb is unamred.

By the way, this was all tested in about 15 minutes, you should be able to answer these questions yourself.

- LEit

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 12:03

mazda

Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK

LEit wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 16:07

By the way, this was all tested in about 15 minutes, you should be able to answer these questions yourself.

Well said. Smile

And you then wouldn't get stupid people like me giving out bad guesses whilst at work.
Dunce

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 12:53

freakyboy

Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

So a bomber without a bomb should just be "Unarmed?"

Here's a slightly better questions thats probably down to opinion...

What is the best way to defend an IS orgy from sniper ships??

1) using galleons with 1 weapon and a very low battle attractiveness (but orders to disengage)
2) freighter chaff

1. would be a good idea bar the huge cost of low attractive galleons vs Super Freighters.
2. would be cheaper and allow simple use of the super freighter... but you'd need to build chaff over and over again.

As a secondary question....
a destroyer with both a cargo pod and a laser (combined with a single 300dp sheild and enough armour to take it over the 260 mark) would need 2 armageddon missiles to be destroyed... would this slightly expensive form of chaff protect your armed ships (since it too is armed) AND your freighters (since it has a cargo pod) and therefore scupper any sniper options and only use 1 design slot in doing so? Would it be more cost effective that 1 set of chaff for your armed ships and 1 set off chaff for your freighters?
also would it be worth adding a sheild and slot of armour to make the ship survive a single armageddon missile or is it more cost effective not to add any armour/sheilds?

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 13:14

LEit

Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT

1) If the opponent uses kill freigther orders, arming a galleon won't matter.
2) Freighter chaff is probably the only way to protect against missile ships.
3) The other method is to wait a year and send in the pop bomb after the main fleet clears the area. This slows you down however.

Big chaff: You must be very careful with this, as the cost/defenses approaches the ships you are trying to protect, and if some one brings along some sappers, the shields go away, and you may find the ships you are trying to protect acting as chaff to your DDs.

Also don't try to take more then 1 missile per chaff, you'll get damaged and pretty quickly, you will be back to 1 per chaff - and everything you spent to take 2 will be wasted.

- LEit

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 13:19

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

freakyboy wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 18:53

As a secondary question....
a destroyer with both a cargo pod and a laser (combined with a single 300dp sheild and enough armour to take it over the 260 mark) would need 2 armageddon missiles to be destroyed... would this slightly expensive form of chaff protect your armed ships (since it too is armed) AND your freighters (since it has a cargo pod) and therefore scupper any sniper options and only use 1 design slot in doing so? Would it be more cost effective that 1 set of chaff for your armed ships and 1 set off chaff for your freighters?
also would it be worth adding a sheild and slot of armour to make the ship survive a single armageddon missile or is it more cost effective not to add any armour/sheilds?

It would NOT protect your freighters if the enemy is using "unarmed" as target ...

mch

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Tue, 09 September 2003 13:24

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

LEit wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 19:14

Also don't try to take more then 1 missile per chaff, you'll get damaged and pretty quickly, you will be back to 1 per chaff - and everything you spent to take 2 will be wasted.

True, the extra damage will get spread over the stack and at a point the chaff in the stack will be so damaged that one missile is enough to kill them ... to prevent that you could split up your chaff into single chaff tokens, but you'll soon run into the battle board limit. Wink

mch

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Re: battle plans and targeting

Wed, 10 September 2003 02:44

Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

I know

the main question was how to protect an orgy against snipers. i just wanted to give some starting points to discuss this. finally the discussion went into a direction with some ideas...

and as you know several people have different opinions, and if i had tested it for me alone they would not know better in the end...

anyway... i know i could have tested this alone... it is not that i am too lazy (ok, a bit) or too supid...

anyway... thanks for your comments

robert

2b v !2b -> ?

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