BIIIG questions... I'm sure somebody must've answered these before, but I couldn't find anything by searching on this site, so I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

I've been pondering what the formulas might be for pop growth and resource limitations of colonising on red/yellow/green worlds, and for overpopulating planets.

1) I've heard you can only have 10 defence on a red planet. Are there similar limits/efficiency penalties on factories/mines based on planet value?

2) Suppose I put 1,000,000 people on a -10% red planet
2a) With a standard race do I still get to build 100,000 factories?
2b) Do those factories produce the same resources as they would on a 100% planet?
2c) And do I still get 1 resource per 1,000 pop?

3) How about when I put 5,000,000 population on a 100% green? What are the break points for deaths by overcrowding?

Thnx

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Umm its elementary, Watson.

open Stars!

press F1.

Help should pop up.

click to "playing"

click to Major Element of Play "Planets"

click to Read More about planets "population"

read it carefully

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ok... so..... If I understand it correctly:

If you are planning on overpopping your planets, to a huge degree, then habitability is no longer all that significant:

green planets:
over-crowding deaths caps at 400% at -12% per year, so the population limit of lower habitabilty becomes entirely irrelevent over 4 million.

red planets:
with -12% overcrowding, the population loss from planet value becomes relativly unimportant (i.e. -30% planet value gives additional -3% population loss, but if you are already losing 12% it's not that important...)

So presumably IS PRT has potential to colonise, to some extent, even the worst planets, as long as they are prepared keep 2/3 of their population in their orbiting freighters.

I can imagine IS empires consisting of 1 (ONE) VAST planet, with the remainder of the empire only needed for early-mid game population ramp-up.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 September 2003 00:38]

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There are few things help file probably does not mention...

One is that the 50% pop resources you get only up to overpopulating 3 times. After that you get nothing.

Example:
if your planet can hold 100,000 pop and your race has 1 resource generated per 1000 pop then you put there 300,000 pop and get
100 resources for 100,000 allowed pop and 100 resources for 200,000 overpop. So 200 resurces. If you drop there 400,000 pop you still get 200 resources.

On the other hand if the planet has negative value you get no overpopulation deaths there you get only the negative value penalty. So despite the small reds have very little resources even when overpopulated 3 times they may still have value for IS just as almost penaltyless huge population storages.

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Kotk wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 14:34

There are few things help file probably does not mention... One is that the 50% pop resources you get only up to overpopulating 3 times. After that you get nothing.

How about the number of factories you can maintain? Is that limited in the same way, or can you just keep on building?

Quote:

On the other hand if the planet has negative value you get no overpopulation deaths there you get only the negative value penalty. So despite the small reds have very little resources even when overpopulated 3 times they may still have value for IS just as almost penaltyless huge population storages.

WOAH! So no overcrowding penalty, but what about resource generation? Does that hit the same '50% from 100% to 300%, then nothing' resource limit? And what about factories?

(BTW I updated my previous post just before you replied, but you made it out of date already

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Yeah oh, and i have more terrible news...

Only "supported" population can happily operate mines, factories and defenses. Unsupported overpop just has to sit tight there and handmanufacture.

Example:
OBRM IS -10% red can support 55,000 pop. It makes 55 resources and it can make factories and mines. It can operate 10 defenses. It dies at rate 1% per turn so about 500 guys die. You add there 110,000 and you get 55 resources more. Thats it. No factories, no mines, no defenses. But they dont die at rate 12% but only at 1% like the supported guys.

Yes, IS can overpopulate its worlds effectively doubling the population resources. I however find it more amusing to drop 4 times of pop to the heads of my opponents instead of overfilling my own planets 3 times.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 September 2003 01:18]

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Oh well... There goes that idea... Thanks for the help, I think I understand it all now.

Back to my pipe I go

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hmmm, what about for AR races?

Resources = "planet value" * sqrt ( "population" * 1000 / "efficiency" )

If I overpop my deathstar from 3 million pop to 10 million pop does the same formula still apply, or is it limited/capped in a similar way non-AR races are?

It's be a daft thing to do anyway, as you're much better spreading your pop out for AR anyhow (that sqrt thang is evil)

I think I'll lay down my pipe and give up trying to monster the whole overpop concept now...

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Hi!

Dogthinkers wrote on Tue, 09 September 2003 07:40

hmmm, what about for AR races?

Regarding building/resource production, AR races have min planet value 25%, not 5% as other races. ARs also have an advantage of max pop number, as their amount of population is based on starbase type, not planet value.
You may try to overpopulate your orbitals on green planets, but IMO you'll face a problem getting enough pop for that. With 12% deaths from 300% overpopulated Deathstar you'll need 1 million pop each turn
IMO overpopulating scenario only works on small red planets, or with IS race. Forget the rest, it costs too much.
BR, Iztok

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Has anybody got a formula for overpop deaths?

I've been told it caps at -12% at 400% capacity, but what is the death rate at smaller capacities?

e.g. 200%, 300%.

Does anybody know if it works to a continuous formula, or is it discontinuous (e.g. -4% at 200% jumping to -8% at 300% etc.)

I'd like this info for a model I am producing which attempts to optimise population transport strategy to maximise total planetary population.

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Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 07 April 2004 09:09

Has anybody got a formula for overpop deaths?

No, but i have something better.
"growth" formula that takes it into account.

popgrown = ROUND(IF(OR(currpop<planetmax*25%, planetgrowth<0),currpop*planetgrowth,IF(currpop<planet max,(((100-(currpop*100/planetmax))^2)*planetgrowth/(75*75)* currpop),(currpop)*-4%*MIN((currpop-planetmax)/planetmax,3)) ),-2)

Where
"planetgrowth" is MAX(racegrowth*planetvalue,planetvalue/10) it means at negative planets your pop die at 1/10 of value.
"currpop" is current pop at planet
"planetmax" is max pop at planet calculating it you need take into account PRT (AR, HE, JOAT have differences), orbital type if its AR, LRT (OBRM) and planet value.
"racegrowth" is race growth (for example 18% is 0.18)
"planetvalue" is planets habitability (for example -15% is -0.15)

If you want to get pop at planet next year you need to add popgrown to currpop.

Pay attention that at red planets the overpopulation death is not 12% max but only 1/10 of value.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 April 2004 06:26]

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Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 07 April 2004 02:09

Has anybody got a formula for overpop deaths? I've been told it caps at -12% at 400% capacity, but what is the death rate at smaller capacities? e.g. 200%, 300%. Does anybody know if it works to a continuous formula, or is it discontinuous (e.g. -4% at 200% jumping to -8% at 300% etc.) I'd like this info for a model I am producing which attempts to optimise population transport strategy to maximise total planetary population.

IIRC, it is linear, .04% death rate per every 1% over the 100% cap of a particular world. So, at 400% of cap, the math looks like this:

target planet 100% capacity = 1,000,000
current population of target planet = 3,000,000

(3,000,000 - 1,000,000) / 1,000,000 = 2 ; or 200%

(200% x .04%) = 8% Death rate (caps at 12%)

There is no real reason to go beyond this level, as you don't gain any resources. Although, if you think your freighters will get attacked, and you can't escape, that might make sense.

Now, the real trick here for an IS, is doing the math for figuring out how much pop you need in orbit to equalize out the death rate. Normally, this would be a straight and narrow formula, that even stupid people like me could handle...however, this is not the case in reality. In reality, population in orbit is dropped *before* planatary death rates are calculated. So, the equalization formula gets a bit more complex.

Using the above example, we want enough pop in orbit to hold the planet at the 3,000,000 level. You would think that replacing the 8% that will die would do the trick:

.08 * 2,000,000 = 160,000 dead...

Let's say pop growth is 20% (which will be the .2 below) for simplicity.

160,000 / (.2 / 2) = 160,000 / .1 = 1,600,000 col needed in orbit

However, any excess pop is dropped *before* the planetary death rate is calculated! So, now you have changed fundamental planetary deathrate by trying to account for it!

target planet 100% capacity = 1,000,000
current population of target planet = 3,000,000
Colonists dropped from orbit = 160,000

(3,160,000 - 1,000,000) / 1,000,000 = 2.16 ; or 216%

(216% x .04%) = 8.64% Death rate !

2,160,000 * .0864 = 186,624 deaths

Pop after everything 3,160,000 - 186,624 = 2,973,376 Colonists

Ahgggg!!!!

I have actually been working on a Excel formula for this when I have insomnia...puts me right to sleep. So, I haven't gotten very far. My work is at home and I really doubt that I am correct, or that it can be put into a Excel formula easily. However, I hope I'm wrong! Any math majors out there? If there are, please make a formula for this!

-Matt

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[Updated on: Wed, 07 April 2004 11:34]

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