Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Practical Counterdesign
| Practical Counterdesign |
Mon, 28 July 2003 23:20  |
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 paulfi |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 7
Registered: November 2002 | |
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Hello,
Counter-designing ships is the part of the game that has been most difficult for me to learn. Are you willing to help a newbie by sharing some tips?
I know that each case must be considered individually, so to get things rolling, here's an example from a game I'm in.
My enemy (who's playing an HE) is attacking with battleships that have: - 4 alpha drive 8's
- 20 jihad missiles
- 6 organic armor
- 8 bear shields
- 1 man jet
- 3 battle super computers
- 3 jammer 20's
I'm a war monger with RS. My tech levels are energy 10, weapons 14, propulsion 10, construction 14, electronics 8, biotech 8. I have plenty of minerals but not a lot of resources.
What would you recommend as an effective counterdesign?
Thanks,
-paulfi
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| Re: Practical Counterdesign |
Tue, 29 July 2003 02:59  |
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| LEit |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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| Sotek wrote on Mon, 28 July 2003 23:49 |
Chaff.
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Chaff isn't usually cost effective until Juggs at least.
Against this ship, one chaff reduces your damage by 62 (accuracy*damage).
Here is a decent ship design at your tech levels (this is a design I stole from Backblast, he called it the Blubble in RWIAB):
Battle Cruiser
warp 8 engines TGFS if you have it, otherwise AD8s
2 jets
6 bear shields
9 Mark IV blasters
speed 2.25, 1000 armor, 840 shields
You could consider swapping out 3 of the blasters for sappers, but the BB shields drop fast. If you were facing a heavily shielded opponent, sappers would make more sense.
I put 30 of them against 10 of those BBs. 15 of them died.
At this point it's tempting to think that chaff would be useful after all. However against 10 BBs you would need 200 chaff a round, the BBs killed 3 on round 1, 4 on round 2, 5 on round 3, and 3 on round 4. For 4 rounds of chaff you would need 800 chaff, at max tech (what I had to test with) that is enough to buy 20 more of the BCs, covering the losses and then some, in addition BCs can shoot...
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Practical Counterdesign |
Tue, 29 July 2003 03:30 |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| paulfi wrote on Mon, 28 July 2003 23:20 |
My enemy (who's playing an HE) is attacking with battleships that have: - 4 alpha drive 8's
- 20 jihad missiles
- 6 organic armor
- 8 bear shields
- 1 man jet
- 3 battle super computers
- 3 jammer 20's
I'm a war monger with RS. My tech levels are energy 10, weapons 14, propulsion 10, construction 14, electronics 8, biotech 8. I have plenty of minerals but not a lot of resources.
What would you recommend as an effective counterdesign?
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Your opponent has low computing power. If you put in your counterdesign BB only 3 jammers 20 you'll reduce his accuracy down to 34%. Jihads are not so strong for chaff to be cost-effective, so I see two possible BB counterdesigns:
1) a BB with 18 Bludgeons and 2 gattlings, 8 Bear shields, 2 or zero organic armors, 3 jammers, 3 capacitors, man jet and TGD-9 engines. With your 1/2 movement bonus it will move 3 squares in the first and 2 squares in the second round, thus ending on top of SB or missile BBs. With its 5600 firepower it will destroy 1 opponent BBs and heavily damage another one with each shoot, and with relatively high jamming it will destroy opponent's stack five times as fast as he'll destroy yours. Those two gattlings are for clearing minefields. Please note that this design is speciallized: will kill only ships that are heavier then it is. Less heavier designs will have quite some free shots at it, as they will always move out of it's range.
2) a BB with 20 Mark 4 blasters, Bear shields, 3 jammers, 3 capacitors, man jet and AD-8 engines. I'd leave armor out as it has only range 2 guns, so your opponent will not be able to counter it with lighter R3 BB. With combat speed of 2 it will shoot at anything in third round of battle. It has only 1/3 FP of the first one, but still 3 times the FP of opponent's BBs, has much longer lifespan and is hard to counter.
BR, Iztok
P.S. If you can afford waiting I strongly recommend buying con-16. It will give you Dreadnaught hull. This hull ROCKS! You literarly can put a blue laser on it and you'll still be able to win 1 on 1 fight with your opponent's jihad BB design. With your tech I'd put on 39 mark4, 13 shields, 8 organics, 6 cap's, 4 jammers and TGD-9 engine. There's nothing that would stop that design for comparable costs for a LOOOONG time (a BB with Dooms/Disruptors or a Nubian hull needed  Enjoy the DN, I sure did!
[Updated on: Tue, 29 July 2003 09:31] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Practical Counterdesign |
Thu, 31 July 2003 21:10 |
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| paulfi |
| Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 7
Registered: November 2002 | |
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Thank you both for the helpful replies. I had not thought of outfitting a battleship with bludgeons - truly a ferocious weapon! Oh, and my allies are providing my with elec10 soon so I will be able to include the jammers.
I agree that waiting for the DN hull is the best I can do. I think that hull is perhaps the greatest advantage WM has. I will try to build the minimum ships I need, probably mixing between the bludgeon BBs and the MarkIV BCs.
Thanks again!
-paulfi
PS Did others find this as useful and interesting as I did? Should I post a few more questions? I do believe this is the part of the game where I stand to learn the most.
[Updated on: Thu, 31 July 2003 21:10] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Practical Counterdesign |
Fri, 01 August 2003 02:59 |
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| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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| paulfi wrote on Thu, 31 July 2003 21:10 |
I agree that waiting for the DN hull is the best I can do. I think that hull is perhaps the greatest advantage WM has.
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I almost agree. The other one is 1/2 combat speed bonus. It basically gives the WM a free slot(s) that other players use for man-jet or OT. He can put there a computer, capacitor, jammer or whatever he needs to gain advantage over opponents' designs, or he just uses a cheaper/lighter engine for the same combat speed.
| Quote: |
I will try to build the minimum ships I need, probably mixing between the bludgeon BBs and the MarkIV BCs.
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The right approach! Just be sure you'll have enough bludgeon BBs in a token to survive 4 rounds of battle, as they will be probably targeted first because of high amount of boranium in bludgeons. Before you engage in real combat, check the battle outcome with the combat simulator first (http://www.starsfaq.com/download/battlesim.zip), to find the right mixture of ships and orders.
BR, Iztok
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| Re: Practical Counterdesign |
Sun, 10 August 2003 17:54 |
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| Deuce |
 | Senior Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 94
Registered: June 2003 | |
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warning about the battlesim: tech is maxed, full miniturization. this can screw around with attractivness sometimes... and when chaff is involved this can REALLY screw up your projections.
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In that case your proposed BC design is better.