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where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Wed, 18 July 2018 18:44

mrvan

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014

The order of events page [https://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Order_of_Events] lists instaforming after WP1 actions, but it doesn't specify where permaforming is. Does someone know if permaforming is before or after WP1 orders?

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Wed, 15 August 2018 17:19

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

It apparently happens after the build queue is processed, but before pop growth. Rolling Eyes

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Fri, 17 August 2018 09:53

mrvan

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014

Excellent, we're doing pop invasions for tech trade and one of the planets is -1% for me, so it's good to know that it gets a chance to permaform if I own it between WP0 and WP1 orders.

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Sun, 19 August 2018 02:47

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

mrvan wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 15:53

chance to permaform

IIRC, odds of Permaforming increased with pop size. Unless it was with years owned. Rolling Eyes

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Mon, 20 August 2018 10:51

mrvan

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014

Does it? I always thought it was a flat chance. If I have time I'll test it (and might as well test whether it occurs before or after WP1 orders)

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Thu, 30 August 2018 04:29

mrvan

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014

I did a small simulation of chance-to-permaform, and it seems it is indeed dependent on population:

Setup: started a new game, colonized 3 planets and sent 0, 1, or 3 MFs pop, exported planet values, then 900 times genned a single turn and exported planet values, compared GravOrig:RadOrig and counted how often they were different

Results:

Planet       chance(%)  Population
Diamond        0.2            2900
Blush          2.3           24300
Johnson        6.8           75900

So at low pop values it seems almost linear, pretty sure it has to have a ceiling. I'm actually surprised by the high chance of a 'hit', 68 changes in 1000 trials for a moderately sized planet - O thought it would be closed to 1% per turn...

[Updated on: Thu, 30 August 2018 04:29]

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Sat, 01 September 2018 04:11

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

Fascinating! Cool

Can you test with more planets and wider pop ranges? Say, from 100 to 1000000? Teleport

Also, see if distance from actual to ideal Hab plays any role...

[Updated on: Sat, 01 September 2018 04:12]

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Mon, 01 October 2018 06:57

iztok

Commander

Messages: 1197
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe

mrvan wrote on Thu, 30 August 2018 10:29

Results:

Planet chance(%) Population Diamond 0.2 2900 Blush 2.3 24300 Johnson 6.8 75900

So at low pop values it seems almost linear, pretty sure it has to have a ceiling. I'm actually surprised by the high chance of a 'hit', 68 changes in 1000 trials for a moderately sized planet - O thought it would be closed to 1% per turn...

Well, if you pick the CA for a race, the last sentence of its description says it has up to 10% permaforming chance per turn. Data you collected implies there has to be 100k pop for full chance, but it does look like 1%, not 10%.

Nice work tho! Nod

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Mon, 01 October 2018 07:00]

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Tue, 30 October 2018 05:52

iztok

Commander

Messages: 1197
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe

iztok wrote on Mon, 01 October 2018 12:57

... Data you collected implies there has to be 100k pop for full chance, but it does look like 1%, not 10%.

Reading my reply again, it became obvious you did a test with only 100k pop, which yielded 1% chance. Could it be 1000k pop would actually give 10%? Confused

[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2018 05:53]

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Re: where is CA permaforming in the order of events?

Tue, 30 October 2018 06:36

mrvan

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014

Sorry for the non-reply. I did indeed not test higher numbers (but notice that 76k pop already gets 6.8%) to see if there's a ceiling or convergence effect. the test would be pretty easy to do I suppose - but not this week Grin

). Somehow I had read the description as saying you have a 1% of increase, but you're right that it is 10%. So this is in fact more powerful than I thought. One wonders why CA gets the banhammer in most games...

[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2018 06:37]

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