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Gaining advantages throug player number Tue, 08 April 2003 07:38 Go to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
I would like to start a discussion on the issue, if advantages can be gained by player number.

Some examples:

- if several players have frighters at the position of salvage, and they try to load minerals, the player with the lowest number gets them.

- if 2 CA fight each other, and one attacks the other with OAs,
then he deterraforms the planet while attacking for whatever reason (bombing, popdrop...). If the other player has OAs in orbit, too and lower player number, he cant do anything. If he has a higher player number he can terraform back the same turn... (I am not sure it works, but I think there is some way to exploit this).

- If 2 races attack in combination, and they have to chaff sweep, then the player with the lowest number must be the one who sends in the chaff to sweep the minefield, because if he targets the last moving fleet of the higher player fleets, he will still run into the minefield first. So chaffsweeping can only be performed by the player with lowest player number.

- If 2 players bomb a planet, then they bomb in order of player number, so it makes sense to give LBUs to the player with lower player number, and cherries to the one with higher player number.
LBUs are more expensive and the bombers are more attractive, so in an alliance the one with higher number has an advantage.



Are there other ways to exploit this? Are there ways to prevent this? What should a host do when playing, set himself in high or low position?

I dont really want an answer to these questions, I would like to make you aware of this problem (ok, its a small one), and start some discussion about it...

Maybe we find out something interesting?

Robert







2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Gaining advantages throug player number Tue, 08 April 2003 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Robert wrote on Tue, 08 April 2003 13:38

I would like to start a discussion on the issue, if advantages can be gained by player number.

Some examples:

- if several players have frighters at the position of salvage, and they try to load minerals, the player with the lowest number gets them.


Didn't test this but I thought it was random, at least I thought it was mentioned to be random somewhere ...

Quote:


- if 2 CA fight each other, and one attacks the other with OAs,
then he deterraforms the planet while attacking for whatever reason (bombing, popdrop...). If the other player has OAs in orbit, too and lower player number, he cant do anything. If he has a higher player number he can terraform back the same turn... (I am not sure it works, but I think there is some way to exploit this).



Hm, you could be right here, it would indeed work since one of them has to be last, but again it might be random ...

Quote:


- If 2 races attack in combination, and they have to chaff sweep, then the player with the lowest number must be the one who sends in the chaff to sweep the minefield, because if he targets the last moving fleet of the higher player fleets, he will still run into the minefield first. So chaffsweeping can only be performed by the player with lowest player number.



Almost certain that this is not true, with teammates we always make sure everybody sweeps with his chaff, and I'm pretty sure that both sweeps leave a salvage trail ...
... but that might not be proof now I think of it ... could be like:
player#1 fleet#1 moves
player#2 fleet#1 moves
player#1 fleet#2 moves
player#2 fleet#2 moves
etc
So if that would be true than both players chaff would crash ...

Quote:


- If 2 players bomb a planet, then they bomb in order of player number, so it makes sense to give LBUs to the player with lower player number, and cherries to the one with higher player number.
LBUs are more expensive and the bombers are more attractive, so in an alliance the one with higher number has an advantage.



This one is correct.

Quote:


Are there other ways to exploit this? Are there ways to prevent this? What should a host do when playing, set himself in high or low position?



Well, often I see the host in slot #1, I put myself in the last as token of courtessy ...

Quote:


I dont really want an answer to these questions, I would like to make you aware of this problem (ok, its a small one), and start some discussion about it...

Maybe we find out something interesting?



Additions:

I recall something about SD minefield detonations, the MMLs of players with higher player# would be safe in detonations of players with lower player#, or the other way around, don't remember exactly. Never tested it, so can't say it's true.

Also scrapping is according to player number. So if you are getting two techs scrapped from different players make sure the one your want most is scrapped by the player with the lowest player#, and the one you have as a backup scrapped by the other player ...

regards,
mch
...

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Re: Gaining advantages throug player number Wed, 01 August 2018 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrvan is currently offline mrvan

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 184
Registered: May 2014
OK, I know that on most forums this would be considered aggravated necro, but here I think 15 years old means it's still on the front page Smile

Jokes aside, it is an important question whether two players can collaborate in chaff sweeping, and it seems that the only answer I found on the forums is incorrect:

[quote title=Micha wrote on Tue, 08 April 2003 09:14]Robert wrote on Tue, 08 April 2003 13:38

Quote:

- If 2 races attack in combination, and they have to chaff sweep, then the player with the lowest number must be the one who sends in the chaff to sweep the minefield, because if he targets the last moving fleet of the higher player fleets, he will still run into the minefield first. So chaffsweeping can only be performed by the player with lowest player number.


Almost certain that this is not true, with teammates we always make sure everybody sweeps with his chaff, and I'm pretty sure that both sweeps leave a salvage trail ...
... but that might not be proof now I think of it ... could be like:
player#1 fleet#1 moves
player#2 fleet#1 moves
player#1 fleet#2 moves
player#2 fleet#2 moves
etc
So if that would be true than both players chaff would crash ...


Micha suggests that player #2 fleet #1 moves before player #1 fleet #2, but that does not match my observation.

Setup (from the wiki battle sim save):

1) 46 ly mine field centered around Cinnamon
2) Player #6 has 250 scouts numbered #251 - #500 set to traverse the field at speed 10
3) Player #7 has 250 scouts numbered #1 - #250 set to traverse the field at speed 10



Setup picture: [img][url]http://i.imgur.com/E3FXoPj.png[/url][/img]

Expected outcome: Player 7 scouts chaff sweep the field, leaving a tail of debris; while player 6 scouts (almost) all survive.

Actual outcome:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/237NpGu.png[/img]

Player #6 completely swept the field, even though he had higher fleet numbers; and player #7 got through unscathed.

Conclusion: Fleets move by player, and then by fleet:

player#1 fleet#1 moves
player#1 fleet#2 moves
..
player#2 fleet#1 moves
player#2 fleet#2 moves
.. etc


(edit: how do you insert images here?)


[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2018 11:43]

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Re: Gaining advantages throug player number Wed, 01 August 2018 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
talkingbologna is currently offline talkingbologna

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 82
Registered: November 2016
Location: 1947
A lot of forums won't let you upload pics from your computer, only from other sites. Websites like imgbb.com can upload images to the web, and you can display the image, somehow. That's how I got pics of the last newbeg game on the stories thread. Unfortunately, I don't really remember how I did it. It had something to do with including the bbcode link given by that particular website inserted in the img /img bbcode, but either I forgot how I got it to work or something's changed.

Edit: Nope, can't get it to work (tried different options with different format tools, to no availio).


[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2018 15:41]

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Re: Gaining advantages throug player number Fri, 21 September 2018 10:58 Go to previous message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1038
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
mrvan wrote on Wed, 01 August 2018 15:56
OK, I know that on most forums this would be considered aggravated necro, but here I think 15 years old means it's still on the front page Smile


Well... the matter hadn't been solved in a satisfying matter. So, obviously it is no necro-ing only that some things thake a bit time *grin

mrvan wrote on Wed, 01 August 2018 15:56

Conclusion: Fleets move by player, and then by fleet:


Splendid. Thanks for clarifying it.

Quote:
(edit: how do you insert images here?)


Not at all.
It is allowed in the game stories section and in some private forums but in most other parts of the forums the settings are not to allow images.

You can post the links, though.

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