Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Formulae for population change on negative hab planets?
Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Wed, 03 May 2017 08:34 Go to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 179
Registered: April 2006
Location: Nowra, Australia
For Stars! Nova I have the growth rate formulae for normal planets and for overcrowding from the Stars! wiki. Does anyone know the exact formulae for negative hab planets? IIRC negative hab planets also have a lower population limit for calculating max factories of 25,000? Does this factor into crowding effects?

The Pop * growth-rate * hab value formulae will produce negative growth on negative hab worlds, but it will be more negative for high growth rate races, which seems odd.



Have fun.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Wed, 03 May 2017 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 179
Registered: April 2006
Location: Nowra, Australia
Alternatively, if you can provide a few values from a current/previous game, I can reverse engineer a formulae. I would need to know the planet's Hab value, starting population, and the population in the following year (and if it was terraformed, the new Hab value, as production occurs before pop growth). Even if you can only provide a few game years data for one planet it would let me check if the normal growth formulae applies. I also need your race's growth rate, PRT and if you have OBRM; so probably not a good idea to post from a current MP game Wink


Have fun.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Thu, 04 May 2017 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1359
Registered: May 2008
Daniel wrote on Wed, 03 May 2017 22:34
For Stars! Nova I have the growth rate formulae for normal planets and for overcrowding from the Stars! wiki. Does anyone know the exact formulae for negative hab planets? IIRC negative hab planets also have a lower population limit for calculating max factories of 25,000? Does this factor into crowding effects?

The Pop * growth-rate * hab value formulae will produce negative growth on negative hab worlds, but it will be more negative for high growth rate races, which seems odd.

On negative hab worlds the negative growth is 0.1 * pop * hab value. So if you have 300,000 pop on a -10% red, you'll lose 3,000 (1%). On a -45% red you'd lose 4.5% of your pop.

Red, yellow, and <5% green worlds are treated as having 5% habitability for the purposes of determining population cap; an OBRM race that isn't HE/AR/JoaT has a cap of 55,000 pop on such worlds (pop over 100% up to 300% - 55k to 165k, in this case - receives half pop resources but can't operate installations, as usual). However, there are no overcrowding deaths on red and yellow planets, just the deaths from negative hab.

EDIT: Incidentally, for AR (whose pop cap is invariant based on starbase, but whose resource efficiency varies with hab) the minimum hab for resource calculation is 25%. So a red can produce 1/4 the resources of a 100% green instead of 1/20... the catch is that you need just as much pop as for that 100% green, rather than 1/20 as much.


[Updated on: Thu, 04 May 2017 00:52]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Thu, 04 May 2017 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 179
Registered: April 2006
Location: Nowra, Australia
magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 04 May 2017 14:41

On negative hab worlds the negative growth is 0.1 * pop * hab value. So if you have 300,000 pop on a -10% red, you'll lose 3,000 (1%). On a -45% red you'd lose 4.5% of your pop.


Thanks! That was all too easy to implement. You can claim credit for Nova Revision# 876 Wink

AR will come later...



Have fun.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Mon, 08 May 2017 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
It also makes -1% planets really nice for IS. It's worth 'banking' partial TF work orders until you have enough to jump beyond 5%.
And even then it makes a good orgy overflow planet, you lose so few people that it's just like a 'full' freighter with infinite capacity (full, i.e. no breeding)

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Tue, 09 May 2017 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1359
Registered: May 2008
XAPBob wrote on Tue, 09 May 2017 06:56
It also makes -1% planets really nice for IS. It's worth 'banking' partial TF work orders until you have enough to jump beyond 5%.

I'll note that that's only relevant for non-immune races, and even then only for triple-yellows, 40% of double-yellows and 10% of single-yellows (or triple-yellows, 70% of double-yellows and 24% of single-yellows, for the harsher requirement of hab 10%+ on conversion to green).

(One immunity guarantees 14% for converted yellows even with the other band sitting on the edge.)

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Wed, 10 May 2017 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 179
Registered: April 2006
Location: Nowra, Australia
So, if you are just looking to store meat bombs somewhere, a -1% world is far better (in terms of negative growth only) than a 100% world that is already at max pop, right? You only loose 0.1%, no matter how many extra colonists you have on that -1% world; but you could loose up to 12% on the 100% world.

Of course, if you are after production, you are better off overpopulating that 100% world. It depends on what you want the colonists for.



Have fun.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Wed, 10 May 2017 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
Overpop to 300%
The -1% is best for storage only.
Of course by the time you care your orgy is probably completely out of control

Report message to a moderator

Re: Formulae for population change on negative hab planets? Thu, 11 May 2017 02:39 Go to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1359
Registered: May 2008
Daniel wrote on Wed, 10 May 2017 21:10
So, if you are just looking to store meat bombs somewhere, a -1% world is far better (in terms of negative growth only) than a 100% world that is already at max pop, right? You only loose 0.1%, no matter how many extra colonists you have on that -1% world; but you could loose up to 12% on the 100% world.

Of course, if you are after production, you are better off overpopulating that 100% world. It depends on what you want the colonists for.

Well, yes, but in almost all circumstances the extra production matters more than the extra growth (by definition, you've already got enough pop to fill everything to 100% if you're even considering this, which means you're in all likelihood IS with a mature orgy and growth is easy). Certainly, the reds and yellows should be overpopped to 300% first, but beyond that there's little point dropping them to the ground if they're working just as much in space (i.e. not at all).

Once you've got everywhere to 300% (at this point you're definitely IS), it might seem optimal to put surplus population beyond freighter capacity on a -1% red. But in practice, no-one bothers; for doing this to be worthwhile, you must both:

a) have more pop than necessary for all your worlds to be at 300%, maintenance orgies on every world, and all the popdrop orgies you could possibly desire,

b) care about making more pop.

However, a) and b) are mutually exclusive. Catch-22. If you have more pop than you know what to do with, there's no point in making more.

(If you're AR and somehow have tens of millions of spare pop, then a -1% red/yellow is the optimal site for making a supercharged planetary scanner. But with no freighter growth - in fact, freighter anti-growth - this situation very rarely arises.)

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: Stars! ini file problems
Next Topic: On mine number vs. efficiency and the Mineral Alchemy LRT.
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Wed Jun 29 18:23:51 EDT 2022