| Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Thu, 30 May 2013 04:41  |
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| Eagle of Fire | 
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5 | |
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Hello everybody.
I'm getting out of isolation to ask confirmation about what I consider a very important piece of information which I need to know to confirm or amend some entries I made myself on the Wiki about bombers.
Everybody know that bombing take place in turn from player #1 to player #last. Two players working in an alliance could have the lowest player sport only specialized bombs like LBUs or smart bombs and drop the bombs first, the second player using conventional bombs at full strength for obvious advantages. I have never seen, read or heard players dispute this particular fact.
Where I need confirmation is whether or not making sure one type of bomb is on the first bomber slot so it get fired first actually matter in the bombing process of a single player. As someone pointed out to me recently, conflicting information keep resurfacing in the OOE and all the archived articles relevant to the matter and using the OOE to also justify the fact that the defense percentage number used by the client in the whole bombing run is static and don't change until the whole bombing sequence for a given player is finished. This would indicate that even though the bomber slot ID could indeed be used to have one type of bomb to fire before the second (LBUs and conventional bombs are listed as being calculated at the same time, for example), the end result would not actually be affected.
I tend to trust the information in the "Must Know" forum more than any other sources. The Wiki pretty much copy the same information word for word too as it is pretty much only a library collection of articles pasted into a single media for ease of use. Where I have seen, read and heard of the bomber slots however is in great a many game and communication between players... But it could be a number of things which mislead people to believe that it actually matter. Maybe some people think about the two player combo and wrongly associate the idea with the single bomber. Maybe those who use a multi-function bomber actually have a real reason completely unrelated to this issue, one common reason could be trying to save on design slots. etc.
The reason why I am asking is primarily because I used those information when writing up some entries in the Wiki. Now that I have a serious doubt on the exactitude of those information, if it can be confirmed that the bomber ship ID is only a red erring when used by a single player then I will go amend the entries ASAP to prevent other players from being involuntarily mislead from what should otherwise normally be considered as a solid valid source.
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Thu, 30 May 2013 16:11  |
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Why not test it?
Build two minibomber designs, the one with LBUs, the other with cherries. (DO NOT use smartbombs, as they would always fire after the standard/LBUs, no matter which design they're on.)
Assemble a bombing group out of both designs, and send to another player's planet.
Notice the effects.
Reload the testbed, swapping the designs between them. Compare results.
Simple, no?
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Fri, 31 May 2013 06:48 |
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| Eagle of Fire |
| Lt. Commander |
Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5 | |
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It would if I had time to do it. Which I might get around to try sometime soon but not before a while. I was hoping someone would actually already know.
Also... From what I understand from the OOE, smart bombs would indeed fire after conventional and LBU bombing but the defense % would not be recalculated before the smart bomb fired after the conventional bombing anyways.
If nobody know readily then it is indeed worth testing extensively.
Edit: rereading Loucifer post I am realizing that he might not have fully understood my question. He suggested using mini bombers for this task but that would be absolutely beside the point since there is only one bomb slot on mini bombers. I am asking about bombers with multiple bomb slots available.
I guess a good test for what I want to know would be to build 2 B-17 bomber designs: one with LBU in first slot and cherry in second slot and the second design with cherry in first slot and LBU in the second slot. Then set up a test bed and get the bombers in range. Try with one design 10 times then the second design 10 times and see if there is actually a difference.
[Updated on: Fri, 31 May 2013 13:33]
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Fri, 31 May 2013 15:19 |
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Ah, now I see your point. You meant the slots of the bombers themselves, not the slots of the ship design list.
Now that is interesting, but I doubt it would make any difference. I've been using bombers of various designs vs AI and players alike... and I've never seen any striking difference between bombers of the same payload, no matter how it was configured on the ship itself. I guess the game just sums all the standard/LBU bombs from the designs, drops them all in one go, repeats for smarts, and only then checks for survivors, damage and the like. Anything more complicated than that would be rather counterproductive, no?
I can test it this evening for you, and will come back with conclusive results.
Edit: I have tested this with a group of 50 B-17s with 4 Cherry Bombs and 4 LBU-74 bombs.
The first design - Normals First - had Cherries in the left-hand slot, LBUs in the right-hand one.
The second design - LBUs First - had it the other way around.
I did 5 bomb runs with each group against a WM planet with 972900 people with 2432 mines and factories, and with full Missile Battery defences.
Normals First:
Bomb Run 1: 748100 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 2: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 3: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 4: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 5: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
LBUs First:
Bomb Run 1: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 2: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 3: 748100 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 4: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
Bomb Run 5: 748200 killed, 4964 installations destroyed.
As can be seen from the above, the way bombs are placed on the design makes no difference whatsoever.
[Updated on: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:24] by Moderator
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Sat, 01 June 2013 14:40 |
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Actually that's not a conclusive test. Try it with only 2 bombers each attack.
Right now you are doing a 100% installation kill.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Sun, 02 June 2013 08:39 |
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is it? My thinking went like this:
We want to check how the 2nd bomber damages pop/installation differently if the defences are shot down first or last.
If all the 100% defences are shot down in a sub total, then the numbers might get blurred.
I want to try out the sample run on a B17 bomber with the Best LBU + cherry (and vice versa) and only 50 defences, so even 1 bomber can cause a big difference for the 2nd bombing run.. but I agree, I might be not thinking this through, properly.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Mon, 03 June 2013 03:32 |
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Gents,
if I understand the original issue correctly, the purpose was to test if the configuration of payload on the same design (i.e. which bombs occupy which slots) makes a difference. So I used groups of bombers which had the same payload (i.e. 4 cherries and 4 LBU-74s), but the bombs were placed in different slots (cherries left/LBUs right and vice versa).
The results prove that there is absolutely no difference, and there is no reason not to consider this test conclusive.
Moreover, I shall add that the reported stopping rate was the same in all cases (about 86%, which corresponds to full MB defences), which further reinforces the notion that all bombs are dropped in one go. This goes in line with the OOE, which says that the defences are recalculated only after the complete bomb run by one player is finished.
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| Re: Bombers slot IDs and OOE |
Mon, 03 June 2013 12:08 |
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Hi Loucipher,
I was referring to a 2 bomber test run, both having the same design.. and then repeating in another test.
Test run A : 2 b-17 bombers > lbu in 1st slot, cherry in 2nd slot
Test run B : 2 b-17 bombers > cherry in 1st slot, lbu in 2nd slot
Anyways, I use multi bomb designs only for slot saving reasons.
Also, I don't think the slots override the OoE.. but won't mind making bombers that takes care of slots... 
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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