Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Targeting and Design question
| Targeting and Design question |
Fri, 09 November 2012 04:32  |
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 veross |
 | Civilian |
Messages: 2
Registered: November 2012
Location: Polska | |
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Dear Colleagues;
I am beginner in Stars! but please do not shoot at me if my question is obvious one.
My question is:
Enemy fleer is over my planet. My fleet is 1year of fly away. Can I somehow target enemy fleet with my fleet (not the planet) - so if they move in their turn - I can still catch them? If I set as destination 'the planet' - they if enemy moves away - I will not be ale to catch them.
My friend question is:
He is in a war with less technologically developed player. His enemy (War Monger) is having 100 frigates with Yakimura/PhaserB na 2xcow shields.
He is having Cruiser technology and Weap8. He can produce some Cruisers, but amount of cheap frigates is so big, and because of their 'cheapness' they come is such big masses - he cannot stop them. What would be the optimal way? Maybe frigates 'blow up' on mines effectively?
Thank you; Cheers;
Veross
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| Re: Targeting and Design question |
Fri, 09 November 2012 06:48  |
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| magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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veross wrote on Fri, 09 November 2012 21:17Question1:
You are a genius - thank you, that was super important for me!
Question2:
Do you think that Beta Cruisers would be good idea, with Weap=8 he does not have better ones.. Something that does: slots x weapon x hit = 6 x 12 x 65% (2 computers) does not really sound well against 100 frigates with total 4500 armour and 8000 (4500 for torpedo) shields doing 7800dm per hit.. or maybe I am wrong?
Maybe it is better to quickly go to Sappers, it is only 1 Weapon away, but still it is 1 year with all resources to the research instead of fleet building..
Still, thank you for your kind advice!
Well, no, 1 cruiser isn't going to kill 100 frigates. You need to invest a bit.
If you had 30 or so of those cruisers, though (with 4 torpedoes and 4 computers), then they'd slaughter most of the frigate horde before it got in range.
[Updated on: Fri, 09 November 2012 06:51] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Targeting and Design question |
Mon, 12 November 2012 06:48 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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veross wrote on Fri, 09 November 2012 11:17Do you think that Beta Cruisers would be good idea, with Weap=8 he does not have better ones..
Beta torps aren't cost-effective. His best bet would be to delay the enemy FF horde with minefields until he gets Deltas, Collos, or at least Sappers. Another way would be to build his own FF horde and use it to delay/weaken the enemy onslaught until he gets better Weapons that render these FFs obsolete. 
Since we're talking low-tech Beams, what kind of Shields has your friend got? Wolves are much better than Cows, and could enable range-2 CCs to "dance around" the enemy FFs dealing significant damage before being hit themselves, particularly if he's got Regenerating Shields too. 
Also, you should strive to testbed your designs against the enemy's before committing to massive builds. Battlesims help uncover all kinds of quirks and flaws and potentially winning combos too. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme!  Report message to a moderator
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| dock/station based black jacks plus sapper-FFs |
Mon, 12 November 2012 17:54 |
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veross wrote on Fri, 09 November 2012 10:32My friend question is:
He is in a war with less technologically developed player. His enemy (War Monger) is having 100 frigates with Yakimura/PhaserB na 2xcow shields.
He is having Cruiser technology and Weap8. He can produce some Cruisers, but amount of cheap frigates is so big, and because of their 'cheapness' they come is such big masses - he cannot stop them. What would be the optimal way? Maybe frigates 'blow up' on mines effectively?
100 WM yaki-FFs do pose a problem. Especially when you want to beat them somehow economically and as fast as possible.
1) The most simple and straight forward way is to build yaki-FFs and to accompany them with sapper-FFs but you need quite a lot of them. You can lower the number of needed ships by equipping your defending dock/station with sappers (on bases with range 4) or beta-torps. Calculate depending on the enemy's movement on the battleboard what's more efficient. For more information get familiar with the guts of combat as described within the Stars!-Help (if not installed yet: e27ihelp.zip)
2) If time is essential and it mostly is because you don't want to loose many more planets, a trap might be intersting consisting of a dock/station equipped with black jacks plus suicide sapper-FFs.
Assuming the WM-FFs are equipped with a fuel mizer, they have a battle speed of 1.5. Another assumption would be that the WM has regenerating shields (RS). Your sapper-FFs can get 2 shots for sure, perhaps more depending on movement but I wouldn't count on it. Let's assume only 2 shots. So how many sappers would you need?
1 frigate with 2 cow-hide-shields and RS have 80*1.4=112 shields
100 frigates: 11200 shields.
We want to bring down the shields in 2 shots, so those shields can regenerate once. so we add another 10%:
# 11200 + 1120 = 12320 shields
Sappers have 82fp, at range 3 sappers make only 90% damage, each frigate has 3 sappers, 2 battlerounds:
# 12320 shields / (82fp x 0.9 x 3 x 2) = 28
We need 28 sapper-FFs to bring down the shields, armour will be taken care of by the upto 48 black jacks in the weapon slots of the dock.
Result:
losses: 28 sapper frigates
kills: 100 yaki-FFs
Best done is this tactic as a surprise which can be achieved by equipping the dock/station and moving/gating in the sapper-FFs in the same turn the enemy fleet moves in. Since the sapper-FFs are doomed anyway, they don't need shields.
[Updated on: Mon, 12 November 2012 18:08] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Targeting and Design question |
Tue, 13 November 2012 06:43 |
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This might be a nice tactics, but it only works as long as the attacker uses Yak FFs. When he switches to R2 Phaser Bazookas, they can just stand back and fire at the BJ SB with impunity - after they deal with any defenders.
As counterintuitive as it might seem, torpedos and armor are the way to go. In a quick testbed, a fully decked-out space station (32 Kelarium, 32 Cow shields, 64 Beta torps, 8 computers), defended by 20 torpedo CCs (FM, 6 Beta torps, 2 Kelarium, 2 computers) successfully destroyed a stack of 100 frigates (FM, 2 Cow shields, 3 Phaser Bazookas)... with no losses. And with WM having RS. Sure, the base was 80% damaged... but it survived.
The key was to forget about attacking shields (which would keep coming back up anyway until brought to zero) and instead attack armor directly (something only torps can do at this stage). Thanks to that, FFs were being killed from the moment they came into range. The defenders managed to fire two full volleys before the FFs could use their weapons - 30% of the attackers perished before they could fire. Then, the first salvo of the remaining FFs was largely wasted by shields, so the actual armor damage began in earnest only with second salvo (fired by slightly more than 50 ships). Each subsequent salvo further deducted from the numbers (on the average, they were losing 15-20 ships per salvo). The attackers managed to bring the base to 80% damage, and then, the last salvo from the base wasted all remaining attackers.
The cruisers were NOT damaged in the battle... even though the attackers were left at default orders. The base took all the beating. This would allow bringing up more cruisers after a first attack to aid in the defence against any subsequent waves, while the base would shore up the damage.
As for the choice between 4 torps/4 comps and 6 torps/2 comps combo - definitely the latter. With no jamming at all, you don't really need more computing. You need more torps. A stack of 20 4t/4c cruisers will statistically land ~62 torps on target (77% out of 80). A same-sized stack of 6t/2c cruisers will land 78 torps on target (65% out of 120). When dealing with huge stacks of regenerating shields, missed shots just don't count. All you need is more hits.
And... answering the veross's question: yes, the FFs blow up real nice on minefields. One hit... and they all die. Assuming they hit the mine, that is. You can slow them down to W4 (or maybe W5, if they feel like testing their luck a bit), while you prepare your defences. You can only destroy them in numbers when you're a SD race - a detonating minefield spells death to any FF within its constraints.
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| Re: Targeting and Design question |
Wed, 14 November 2012 06:44 |
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That's true, but as I pointed out above, the 28 sapper FFs / Blackjack SB is effective only against Yak FFs, which are range 1. You pull this trick off once, and then WM comes back with Phaser Bazookas. Or even Colloidals, just to be sure they can engage your sappers before their shields go down. Then you're toast. If I were that WM, I'd do just that.
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| no black jacks vs bazookas |
Wed, 14 November 2012 10:09 |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 14 November 2012 14:24It should be noted that the OP mentioned that there were in fact a mix of Yaks and Bazookas.
This would make the Blackjack Dock idea... ill-advised.
Uups, you are certainly right.
I missed the bazookas.
So, while my above my suggestion is interesting vs yaki-FFs, you definetly shouldn't try this vs bazooka-FFs. Sorry for the confusion.
And to give any good advice vs a mix of 100 yaki/bazooka-FFs, I fear, we'd need to know a bit more about the designs, LRTs and numbers.
[Updated on: Wed, 14 November 2012 10:11] Report message to a moderator
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