[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 06:14]

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[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 08:12]

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[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 12:27]

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Asmodai wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 11:45

I dont know where to put this, so if i may add my situation under debate, i`ll be preciated.

As others have said, some ppl take their NAPs very seriously, while others don't.

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I have NAP-5 - enemy want to end it. Thats his law, but as i understand the agreements, he must await 5 years to start hostilities....

In some cases there's disagreement about the year of the "declaration of intentions" counting towards the 5 years or not.

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- if minesweeping is hostility? (intentionall sweeping - not by accidential sweeping nearby minefield by ships in own orbit - but using fleets deep in minefield to clear it more easier)

Depends on the NAP. Some have loopholes, while others are too broad. Generally when there's doubt about what exactly is allowed, the safest course is to ask.

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- attacking someone starbase is hostility?

Most definitely yes. Accidents do happen, tho, so it's better to know if he's got some "casus belli", however imaginary, to justify his acts.

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Cos this player agreed to the 5 years period of peace and then attacked my starbase and is sweeping my mines. I`m considering this as backstab - but i want to hear some advices from the more experienced players - that was my first game so i dont know how agreements are treated in this community.

Unless he's found a legitimate way to void the NAP before the exit clause (usually by blaming you for breaking it), yes, it looks like a backstab, something that many players take very seriously indeed.

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I might be one of those folks that take NAPs seriously (at least my side of the NAP). But my experience shows that accidents do happen.

I have accidentally broke border agreements by settling planets in an agreed upon no man's land, and this was interpreted as breaking an NAP by the other party. It was my fault for not double checking our border agreement. I have also shot down ships in violation of NAPs by accident. When playing on a new machine it is important to review battle orders, because they are saved in the ini file rather than in the stars folder. What is worse is that I have accidentally shot down ships while trying to negotiate an NAP. More embarrassing still, I have accidentally attacked my allies in more than one game. The last time this happened, I destroyed the tech ships they were scrapping for me.

While I take my side of the NAP pretty seriously, I am slower to get upset when the other party breaks it. I only expect other folks to honour an NAP when it is mutually beneficial. It might be helpful to consider an NAP as a soft power facilitator, rather than a guarantee against the use of hard power. Even though I have never intentionally violated an NAP, but there is a possibility that doing so would be the most reasonable course of action at some time in the future. It is a viable (if not sustainable) tactic.

I might hesitate to make deals with folks that chronically or habitually break them, but a one-off is not much of a deterrent.

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[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 19:08]

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Combat wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 23:14

The attack on Bar None was a accident whether you believe me or not, after you had pointed out that I had missed that part of the agreement I had to stand down a full scale attack believe me I had more than 3 battleships aimed at Bar None and would have taken several planets had I not changed orders,

I'm inclined to believe you. But it still stinks.

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you expect me to believe you received no tech gain from 3 sets of scrappers???

How many scrappers are we talking about? Were there any other tech gains elsewhere that might have interfered?

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[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 01:27]

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For details on BeeKeeper's comment see Altruist's amazing basics about Stars! for beginners.

Chance of receiving tech via scrapping is described on the wiki here .

Also, according to the Stars! Order of Events , Scrapping takes place first, so can only be disrupted by scrapping from higher player (or fleet) number.

For a better understanding of the use and purpose of NAPs, there is a wealth of information at the Stars!-R-Us Diplomacy Library .

Welcome to the nastiest part of Stars!.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 02:44]

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[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 04:39]

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[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 04:40]

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Quote:

A dock is not a SB. Unless it been proven before that a dock can act as a SB for tech scraping and that it somehow escaped me (because I clearly remember never reading about it before) then it won't work.

.....21 scrappers wasted....3 turns of tech delay.....f#&#k !!

[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 03:44]

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Asmodai wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 00:43

.....

It could be worse...
I have played off and on for 17 years and just this year discovered that I was meeting MTs and intercepting packets "the hard way". I was calculating the exact coordinates of the MTs and packets, arriving at those spots a year in advance, and only then targeting them! There was a time when folks would want to because they forgot to give their fleet a waypoint order to attack or bomb. {I miss fuel mining and CA super packets. }

Welcome to The Society of the Practical, friend.
Prosere nobis similibusque...d###abi paucis reliquis!

Edit: And here is to Ron's filter, for stepping on my d###abiler latinitas

[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 05:03]

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Quote:

Correct me if I am mistaken

You attacked me on Bar None? Attacked. Twice.

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but you never clearly established that I back stabbed

I already informed you through email about this.
Why should i bother to sacrifice my time to wrote nonsence messages with complains to the one that does not read them?

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unless you can prove it clearly

I can. I have files from previous turn with battle between my base and your ship. Next turn, another action - same place, similar ships ships(Beamer BBs). 2 same mistakes in a row? My mistake is that i was quite naive considering NAP as some guarrantee or immunity. Lesson learned.
As i replied to you in the email - do your worst. Diplomacy, and further dispute about that is over. If we have here some court solving such things, i`ll be glad to provide files. My second mistake was indeed writing your nick on this board - i thought that there is some pillory or black list for backstabbing people - to my bad there is no such thing. My apologise to people here, cos they shouldnt listen such debates here.

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(trust me am frustrated with throwing away those 3 ships plus the 4 more I just wasted this past turn the mm in this game is friggn killing me 48 hours is not enough when out of 48 hours you work 24, sleep 12-14 and the rest of the time you spend cleaning the house making dinner mowing the lawn and spending time with your 5 year old son plus all the other little things one must accomplish in a day)

That is called RL - but i doubt that it is good explanation, cos everyone in this forum has RL also
To your bad - i have plenty of time for this war, and i dont have such problems with mm as you. And now, it is also question of honour so i dont give up till i see your empire in ashes, or at least bleeded to the dry. A.I will not give me such experience, so maybe i learn something new?
Consider some free from work - will be needed - less frustration and less problems with mm?

[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 06:59]

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I think this thread is a good ground for nap breaker accusations and linen washing.

Always thought there should be some place on the forums for keeping things for ... perpetuity(?).. .

Perhaps even a pinned thread where people who get entangled in these controversies should have their name, game and event listed..

[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 06:41]

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[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 08:03]

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