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Known Bugs (JRC3) Fri, 21 February 2003 19:27 Go to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Known Bugs in Stars JRC3
Original document copied directly from Stars! FAQ

Coding Bugs
Race File Corruption:
If you edit the race name in a race file can cause the file to become corrupt. This is especially common when making the race name shorter than before. To get around this, when editing the race name, either edit it one letter at a time (saving and re-opening each time) or copy the race data into a new file by hand.



Random Race:
If at any point during the race creation you select random race but then de-select it, it can cause the race to generate a random race every time you use it to play a game with. This is because the random tag within the file is not unselected. Though it has been reported by others, I did a recent test of this, but could not activate it.



32k Ship Limit Per Fleet:
There is a limit of 32k of any one type of ship in a fleet (32,767 to be precise). If you try and merge two fleets together which would push the ship count over this limit (i.e. a fleet with 25k chaff and another with 10k), stars has a few problems. If done manually, the ship type will disappear from the fleet readout, but re-appear in the next generation (you will only lose ships in excess of the 32k). But if done using the "merge with fleet" waypoint order, all the ships of that type will disappear. This is because when the integer (16 bit - signed) holding the number of ships goes over the 32k limit it becomes negative, and as you can't have a negative number of ships, it reads as 0.

There are also some other limits in the game: 512 separate fleets, 512 separate minefields, 16 ship designs, 10 starbase designs, 256 tokens at a battle. The game will not allow you to exceed these limits.



AR Starter Colonies:
Starter colonies for AR races will not contribute excess resources to research, unless the build queue is cleared first (using the clear button) or the hull design changed / upgraded. This is due to the "build Starter Colony" order invisibly blocks the end of the queue despite the fact that it has already been completed.



Failing to Close to Range 2 with Sappers and R2 Beams:
In the battle VCR, if a token of ships armed is armed with both sappers and range 2 beams, and is facing an enemy token for which it has enough power in its sappers to completely take down its shields to 0dp in a single turn, then the ship will not attempt to move into range 2 in that turn even if it has spare movement points and regardless of the given battle orders (even with maximize damage). If the token lacks the sapper firepower to deplete all the shields then the token will close to range 2 as normal. The exact logic code-wise behind this bug has not been figured out yet.



Copy Protection Activates When Editing an Allies Turn File:
When you save an submit a turn and then transfer the .x file to another computer (which is being used by another player in the game) and then re-open the turn and then re-save and submit before finally turning over the file to the host, it can cause the copy protection to kick in. The solution is to open the turn file up, delete the .x file while stars is still running and then save and submit, the newly created .x file will be safe to send to the host for generation. The reason for this bug is that the machines hardware hash is only written to the .x file when the .x file is being created and not updated on subsequent save and submit, whereas the stars serial number is updated each time. When you open up your allies turn file, his hardware hash is already encoded into the .x file, but when you update the file with a new save and submit, your stars serial number is added to the file replacing his. Thus the host during generation sees the same serial number on two turn files but both with different hardware hashes. For more information, see the section on the Copy Protection Features.



Font Problems When Using a Non-English Version of Windows:
When playing stars on a non-english version of windows, there can be a few problems with fonts used in stars, the most noticeable of these is in the player scores dialog where the player names are written horizontally, making them overlap each other. This is due to the fact that Microsoft has used different filenames for the various fonts in each language version of windows. To solve this problem requires editing the stars.ini file in the windows directory and editing the [fonts] section. Details of the correct text for each language can be found here.



Netscape email attachment corruption :
Wen sending emails using Netscape, it will treat small attachments of an unknown file type as text (7bit byte) instead of binary (8bit byte) and so truncates the leading byte, this can lead to corruption of turn files sent this way. The solution is to tell it that the various stars file types should be sent MIME encoded.





Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features"
The use of these bugs (with the exception of chaff), is generally considered cheating in multiplayer games unless specified previously by the host that they are allowed, though if you are in doubt check with your games host. Though it is still advisable for hosts to mention which things are disallowed before the start of the game.


Chaff:
The game mechanics will cap the kills inflicted by missiles to the number of missiles fired (i.e. one missile = one kill). Also the targeting algorithm favours weakly armoured targets (in relation to cost in res and bor). These two facts can be taken advantage of. The cheapest armed ship you can build is a scout or frigate with an x-ray laser and QJ5 engine. If you build 1000's of these, the enemy's missiles will target these first. The problem is that the targeting algorithm doesn't take into consideration the fact that to kill a frigate with an Armageddon missile is actually wasting 1005 points of damage in overkill. So with enough chaff you can effectively nullify the enemies missile firepower. But note that the "one missile = one kill rule" doesn't apply to beams, so beamers will eat through chaff very quickly.

See Art Lathrops article for a more in-depth description of chaff and the various tactics associated with it. Though most players consider this a perfectly legitimate and very useful tactic, there are an odd few players who consider this cheating, and so you will find the occasional game which bans chaff, though be very careful to get an exact definition (including ship designs) as to what is consider chaff from the host if it is banned (well before it becomes an issue), as the line between chaff and a cheap sweeper is very thin.



Split Fleet Dodge: (Sort of) Fixed in JRC4
An attacking fleet can only attack ships at the same location. If you split your fleet into many smaller individual fleets and diverge their movement orders, an attacking fleet can only engage one of them (the one with the largest mass will be targeted - though there may be a bug with this). A change was made in the JRC3 patch to stop multiple chasing fleets from all attacking the same target when this was done.



UR/CE Scrapping:
Races with CE get half price engines, and races with UR get to reclaim up to 90% of resources and 70% of minerals that went into the ship/fleet. However when scrapping at another races starbase, Stars doesn't take into account the fact that CE races get half price engines and the resources given are based on the full amount. A ship that is mostly engine (scout with pricey engine), can be used between an alliance to generate "free" resources and minerals. This has been partially countered now that gifted or alien ship (i.e. not built by that race) are considered 30% cheaper in working out scrapping.



Battle Board Overload:
The battle board can only handle a maximum of 256 tokens (shared among all races present). Excess tokens are simply left out of the battle. The tokens selected are based on fleet number, so the lowest numbered tokens would fight and the other left out, though each player is guaranteed (256 / players present) number of tokens. This can be taken advantage of by splitting off 256 chaff (or other cheap ship type), doing a split all on the 256 chaff fleet and then merging the rest of the fleet with the highest numbered ship. This would allow you to "dodge" the battle for the price of 256 chaff. Or simply keep some of more vulnerable ships out of battle (i.e. bombers and freighters). Most players would consider the deliberate use of this to be "cheating" unless specified by the host prior.



0.2% Minimum Damage:
Stars records damage to armour in a fleet/stack as in 1/512ths (0.2%). Any shots in combat (that do armour damage) will be rounded up to the next 1/512th of the total armour in the stack. Normally this isn't an issue, but can be abused. By Building 100+ DDs or nubs with alpha/beta torps, and splitting them into individual fleets just before combat, you will fire a very large amount of slavos (100 fleets of nubs with 9 slots each with beta torps = 900 salvos). Normally these would only do a little bit of damage, but because they are all individual salvos they will each do 0.2% damage, and with 900 slavos that is 180% damage. Which would kill one enemy token/stack outright and damage another by 80%, and this is per round of shooting. The number of missiles per slot won't increase the damage, but having 2 or 3 in the slot will give you a second or third chance to make that salvo hit (missed missiles don't damage armour). Note that shields aren't calculated this way. And the 0.2% rule doesn't override the one missile = one kill rule, so when the stack is at 99% damage you will still need one missile per ship to do the killing blow. The best counter tactics for this are first to split up your fleet into several smaller tokens (thus it will only kill part of your fleet), and to have gatling armed beam ships (as they do damage to each token in range).



False Public Player Scores:
Stars calculated actual resources during the middle of the generation, but calculates resources displayed in public player scores at the very end of the turn. This can be taken advantage of, by uploading pop from each of your planets using waypoint 1 orders (i.e. after movement) and then dropping them back as a waypoint 0 order (ie before movement). This doesn't affect actual output, but can significantly lower your reported resource output from which your score is largely based. This could prevent other players realizing that you are running away with the lead (and thus ganging up on you) until it is too late. Though this could backfire if you are caught, as other players would know that you are hiding something so may to gang up to stop you (which is exactly what you are trying to prevent).



North/South Minefield Immunity: Fixed in JRC4
There is an unusual bug in which there are no minefield hit checks done do a fleet traveling exactly due north or due south. Though the checks are carried out if there is even 1ly of east/west movement. This could allow a player to travel through a minefield at warp 10 with a 0% chance of hitting a mine. Most players would consider deliberate use of this bug to be "cheating".



East/West Speed Bump Minefield Immunity: Fixed in JRC4
A similar bug to the one above, but this time affecting only speed bump fields for fleet traveling due East or West.



SS Pop Steal: Fixed in JRC4
The robber baron scanner can steal minerals from an enemy player, though a player cannot usually steal enemy colonists. Though in the J patch, the check for seeing if the player wishes to steal enemy colonists was disabled when using the waypoint 1 task option (Transport|colonists|load all). This was not intended. This bug has been proved to unbalance the game when used. Most if not all players would consider use of this bug to be very serious "cheating" unless "specifically" stated by the host prior the start of the game.
JRC4 Fix caveat: Mineral transfers must be done by hand, not as a waypoint task.



[freepop] Hack:
Using a memory editing utility it is possible to create colonists out of thin air, limited only by a players freighter capacity, with the help of a memory editor. This abuses a lack of a viability check for loading colonist from an uninhabited planet, usually you cannot load more colonists than you drop down in a turn, but a memory editor can be used to trick the user interface into believing that you had dropped down millions of colonists, and the host doesn't double check these figures. Use of this in a multiplayer game would be considered by most players to be a totally inexcusable cheating offence.



Cheap Starbase:
If you build an EMPTY starbase on a planet which has no base yet, and finish it to 99%, then next turn you can still EDIT the design, add all the weap and armor you like, and the base is still 99% finished. This means you only pay 1% of the full armed base, and 99% for the empty base.



Mineral Upload:
Stars! allows you to upload minerals to any fleet in orbit that does not belong to you. You can even do this if that fleet does not have a cargo hold. This causes the minerals to "disappear".
People have abused this bug to deny the salvage of a battle from their enemy by uploading the minerals from the surface to the enemies warfleet/bombers.



Target List Overload:
The fleet lists that popup when you right click in the scanner pane and the blue diamond of the waypoint tile will only list 100 fleets. So when someone has 101+ fleets at the same coordinates (in orbit of a planet for instance) you can NOT target fleet 101 or higher(these are the fleets with the highest fleet #s.)
You can use the "Other fleets here" list to select(but only view) the higher fleets.



Space Dock Armor slot Buffer Overflow
If your race has ISB and RS, building a Space Dock with more than 21 SuperLat in the Armor slot will result in some sort of error. 21 SuperLat gives a Space Dock 16,000 armor, 22 SuperLat gives it 49,518 Armor. For a full 24 SuperLat stack, you get a whopping 51,018 armor. In comparison, a Death Star for an RS AR tops out at 31,500 armor (not including M.T. toys). [quote Matt Laub]
Race has to have the RS LRT and starbase hull has to be Space Dock to trigger this bug. More details here in this thread.



ISB trumps IT gate scanning
Improved Starbases makes gates invisible to some IT gate scanning. ITs can't see ISB gates with 150kT/600ly gates and infinite/800ly.
This may seem like a limited liability, however, there is often a fairly long period where infinite/800ly gates are the best that can be built, before the 100ly/infinite or infinite/infinite gates can be built. [quote LEit]
Note that the other race only needs the ISB LRT, they do not have to build a Space Dock or an Ultra Station to make their gate invisible, any hull will do.



[Mod edit Feb. 07 2005: added "Space Dock Armor slot Buffer Overflow"]

[Mod edit Feb. 26 2005: added "ISB trumps IT gate scanning"]


[Updated on: Wed, 11 May 2005 15:47] by Moderator


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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Sun, 23 February 2003 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
2 more bugs:

mineral vanishing:
if your planet is bombed by enemy ships, upload minerals to
their fleet (which has no frighters!), next turn the minerals
are gone...

cheap starbase:
if you build an EMPTY starbase on a planet which has no base yet,
and finish it to 99%, then next turn you can still EDIT the
design, add all the weap and armor you like, and the base is
still 99% finished.
this means you only pay 1% of the full armed base, and 99% for
the empty base...

i think the first one is really hard to detect, and can be
painful in the late game, when you fight for minerals...

the cheap starbase trick seems to be really evil when you first
know about it, but there is a simple solution: allow it!
(and tell everybody how it works...)

this is not as hard as it seems, as it just changes the way to play the game... in the late game it is not that important anyway, cause bases dont add much defense anyway... ITs may get
and advantage, as they can build a gate quickly, but still you
need 2 turns, and if an it wants a gate up in 2 turns, he can
do it anyway... this is also countered by the fact that anybody
can build cheap MDs quickly, which is a disadvantage for IT, as
they are weak with massdrivers... so i think its fair again.
so - later in the game bases are unimportant anyway, and in the
early game the situation is quite different. once you got a plaent, it is difficutl to take it away from you early. so it
is much more efficient to grap as many planets as possible, and
build a full equiped fort there soon...
just changes the playing style, as usually it is more efficient
to colonize the _fat_ greens first to optimize growth, but so
it is better to get all greens early to get controle...

well... i played in 2 games, where this cheat was explained
to everybody first and then allowed - no problems had....

but mineral vanishing is nasty...

just what i think... open for discussion Smile

robert




2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Sun, 23 February 2003 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
one more thing:
AR cant use the cheap starbase trick, as it only works if
there is no base... and AR always has a base...

makes them even weaker... Crying or Very Sad



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Mon, 14 April 2003 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaz0o is currently offline Kaz0o

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 6
Registered: April 2003
Location: u.s okc

alright hey all,i just joined this forume only a few days ago
looking for a answer on a spacific question,i wasnt sure of where else to post this,and thought this might be the best place to ask since your talking of bugs on the latest and from my knowledge last patch to !Stars.

anyways the question is a few days ago i tried getting into a game,and when i sent my race file the host of the game told me that the file said it was corrupted,i saw from the first post in this thread that that is a bug on here,but when i open up !Stars and look at it, its version is 2.70i. isnt that the latest patch for it? or am i just being dense?

Also just because i have the latest patch for !Stars,does that mean i still have to download the earlier version of the patches as well?

thanks for the time and answering my Q. Embarassed

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Mon, 14 April 2003 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
Commander
Forum Administrator
Stars! AutoHost Administrator

Messages: 1231
Registered: October 2002
Location: Collegedale, TN
Kaz0o wrote on Mon, 14 April 2003 21:56

anyways the question is a few days ago i tried getting into a game,and when i sent my race file the host of the game told me that the file said it was corrupted,i saw from the first post in this thread that that is a bug on here,but when i open up !Stars and look at it, its version is 2.70i. isnt that the latest patch for it? or am i just being dense?

Also just because i have the latest patch for !Stars,does that mean i still have to download the earlier version of the patches as well?

thanks for the time and answering my Q. Embarassed

The latest patch is 'J' rc3. To join in a game hosted using 'J', you must download the 'J' patch.

The 'J' patch fixes several serious bugs that allow cheating.

The 'J' patch is available from the Download page on Stars! AutoHost website and on several other Stars! web sites.



Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHost

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Tue, 15 April 2003 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaz0o is currently offline Kaz0o

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 6
Registered: April 2003
Location: u.s okc

my bad i was going to the site that showed the patches as being
Patch for 2.70H:
st27h27i.exe -- 417,420 bytes

Patch for 2.70G:
st27g27i.exe -- 418,328 bytes

Patch for 2.70F:
st27f27i.exe -- 418,359 bytes

Patch for 2.70C:
st27c27i.exe -- 419,530 bytes

Patch for 2.70B:
st27b27i.exe -- 419,529 bytes

Patch for 2.70:
st27027i.exe -- 422,945 bytes

and didnt see anything about a path saying 2.70j hince the problem i was having.

thanks for the info though, found that patch.

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Tue, 15 April 2003 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
this also sometimes happens when you edit your race and
change the name after doing all other stuff. when you
then save it, it is corrupted...

what i do is to set the name of the race at beginning of
race design and not change it anymore after that...

sounds strange, but it _is_ a possible reason.

also if you use netscape to submit the files, that might
be a problem. i know netscape sometimes messes up .x files,
maybe also racefiles?

hm.... but i think it does not necessarily mean you use the
wrong patch...

try it

hope it helps

robert



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Tue, 15 April 2003 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
here is the link:

http://www.starsfaq.com/bugs.htm

and the text:

Race File Corruption:

If you edit the race name in a race file can cause the file to become corrupt. This is especially common when making the race name shorter than before. To get around this, when editing the race name, either edit it one letter at a time (saving and re-opening each time) or copy the race data into a new file by hand.


... more detailed than what i wrote ...

hope your problems are gone now Smile

robert



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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Tue, 15 April 2003 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Quote:

what i do is to set the name of the race at beginning of
race design and not change it anymore after that...

sounds strange, but it _is_ a possible reason.


Not that strange since it comes forth from even more protection against hacking ...

Quote:

also if you use netscape to submit the files, that might
be a problem. i know netscape sometimes messes up .x files,
maybe also racefiles?


Yup, race files too IIRC, has to do something with the settings in Netscape, you can fix it, but can't remember exactly how ... something to do with MIME and adding the .x# and .r# as file type ... ??
Or you can just zip the race file (or .x-file), with that file type Netscape doesn't have a problem ...

Quote:

hm.... but i think it does not necessarily mean you use the wrong patch...


Seems in his case it was ...

regards,
mch

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Wed, 16 April 2003 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Quote:

something with the settings in Netscape


Files smaller than 1Kb are treated as ASCII files by default in
Netscape. Simply register .x# .r# file types as binary.

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Renaming Races Wed, 16 April 2003 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
It appears you can rename the race and/or plural race names anything you want as long as they are not more than one character shorter than the current name.
Another simple solution, if you routinely change race names, is to design the races using only one character for race and plural race name when naming them. Thereafter you should be able to name them anything you want without corruption problems. I hope. Very Happy
At least that's how it worked for me... Confused



BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: Renaming Races Wed, 16 April 2003 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
If you leave the race name blank the program will use "Humanoid" as the race name.
If you leave the plural name blank the program will use the race name for the plural name.

The other races will see the plural name id on your planets, and they will see your ships as the race name in the summary, except when they point to the emblem under the ship, then they will see the plural name instead of the race name.
So if your race is named 111 and the plural name is 222 then:
Other players will see you as the 222s on the public score sheet. They will see your planets as belonging to the 222. And when they click on one of your ships the summary will say it is a 111 ship. But when they click on the emblem under the picture it will say it belongs to the 222 race?

So if you play SS you could name your race the "not", and the plural name the "there".
Then when the other players discover your HW and ships they will say to their allies:
"There HW is there, but their ships are not there"
And the other will say "where are there ships"
And the first replies "I don't know, there ships could be anywhere, but I know they're not there. Why? Is there a problem with there?" Crazy

In conclusion, there is no conclusion. This all depends on what happens in the JRC5 patch. Cool


[Updated on: Wed, 16 April 2003 22:07]




BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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icon4.gif  Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) ADDITION Mon, 21 April 2003 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Addition to:

Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features"

Illegal mineral upload:
Stars! allows you to upload minerals to any fleet in orbit that does not belong to you. You can even do this if that fleet does not have a cargo hold. This causes the minerals to "disappear".
People have abused this bug to deny the salvage of a battle from their enemy by uploading the minerals from the surface to the enemies warfleet/bombers.

Regards,
mch

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) ADDITION Mon, 21 April 2003 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Addition to:

Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features"

Target list overload:
It's somewhat similar to the battle board overload bug.
What the bug does: when someone has 101 fleets at the same coordinates (in orbit of a planet for instance) you can NOT target fleet 101 (that is the one with the highest fleet#) with one of your own fleets.

When you target a fleet you can use the blue diamond to choose other fleets at the same coordinates, however that list only has 100 lines! (When in orbit of a planet you can only see 98 fleets, the first line is the planets name and the second line is a separator.)
This is the same list you get when you right click on the fleets in your scanner pane, you can scroll down but again there is the limit of 100 lines. You can also use the yellow triangle/arrow(?) next to the fleets name to click further through the fleets and get past 100. There is however no way you can get past 100 when using the blue diamond for targetting.
As result the fleet with highest fleet# is free to move the next turn without being targetted by another fleet and getting killed ... it's "immune".

Possible scenarios:
Someone chaff sweeps with 200 seperate chaff to a planet, 100 survive, as a result the main battle fleet that will have the highest fleet# (required for effective chaff sweeping) is immune to targetting.
Everyone in a teamgame with an AR who is building up his mineral fountain with 100s of mining fleets, should have noticed this before.

Regards,
mch


[Updated on: Mon, 21 April 2003 18:46]

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Fri, 30 May 2003 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

I was screwing around in a tiny galaxy a while ago and I discovered a strage occurence. I was the only race in the galaxy and I decided to try to turn the whole thing into on giant minefield. I created several hundered mine-layers and they began doing their job. The field continued to expand and eventually filled the entire tiny galaxy, at this point it continued to expand past the galaxies boudaries get bigger. However, when I continued generating turns I found the for some reason the minefield dissapeared. This seemed strange to me so I decided to look at it closer. I found that the minefield was in fact completely gone, even the center point. One time I even saw the center point of the minefield shift a few dozen lightyears away from the fleet that was laying it.

Since I am at school I cannot confirm if this will work in larger galaxies, but I will try to see if it was the tiny galaxy doing this or if it is a limit on how many mines each minefield can hold.

I don't see this as being a problem for anyone because it is not very practical to have a fleet of several hundred mine-layers laying mines for a long time in the same location, but it does look kind of cool to have a massive minefield there one year and completely gone the next.



"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Fri, 30 May 2003 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paladin is currently offline Paladin

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2003
Location: Kentucky

It was most likely an overflow error. Either it expanded past the edge of the galaxy or exceed the size of the memeory location alotted to store the minefield information.


"There is no substitute for Integrity"

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Fri, 30 May 2003 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djhakase is currently offline djhakase

 
Warrant Officer

Messages: 119
Registered: March 2003
Location: Australia

I've done that too.

Worst, though, is when I made an IS OWW race. It started doing that overflow, and a lot more. Eventually, it reached the year 3138 and when I try to generate, Stars! comes up with 'floating-point error: overflow' and crashes. Here's a picture:

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/djhakase/stars!-crash.gif

The question is, which overflow crashed it?

Was it the excessive pop? The excessive space pop growth (3.6 million a year)? The excessive fuel on the that fleet? The excessive number of ships in that fleet? You'll notice the mines for that planet is '1' - that's a result of overflow as well.

In fact there's probably 3 or 4 other overflows going on in the background too. Maybe someone should make a list of overflows and at what point they occur?



they made me do it

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Sat, 31 May 2003 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

I actually did a quick check of minefileds and I found that they seem to overflow and dissapear if their radius get to 1020ly. I could get the field up to 1019ly (1039440 mines, decy rate 519720) but anything over that would simply dissapear. The only way that a field can be bigger than this is if it is all laid in one year. If you get a fleet that puts down a few million mines in a year the field will be there the next year and decay normally, but as soon as you try to lay another mine in the field it dissapears.

Strange thing about the dissapearing minefields though is when you look at the field number (x of y) it acts like the field that dispeared is still there. What I mean is if you overflow one minefield and the next year lay another one, the first minefield is completely gone without a trace and therefore the second minefield that you laid should be field 1 of 1, but instead it is field 2 of 2.

I doubt that this will actually affect anyone in a real game, but I thought that it was an interesting bug.



"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Known Bugs (JRC3) Mon, 02 June 2003 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jchoyt is currently offline jchoyt

 
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Hatterson wrote on Sat, 31 May 2003 15:18

I doubt that this will actually affect anyone in a real game, but I thought that it was an interesting bug.


Actually, this might be causing another problem I've seen. In large games with an SD about, the game files occassionally go south. What I mean is you start seeing strange messages and the occassional error, then about 6 turns later, you can't even gen anymore. The whole game is a loss. I've been in two games where this has happened and heard about a few more.

I think I'll forward this to Jeff McBride and see what he says.

Jeff

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2 new Bugs to discuss Sat, 25 October 2003 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
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Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Maybe this has been posted before, in case it has: sorry Rolling Eyes

2 things i would like to discuss:

- if you are at the same position as your enemy and want to chase him, then he might set a waypoing without having enough fuel to reach it. The chaser "overshoots" and ends up at a point where the fleet had gone without running out of fuel.
So it is impossible to chase...

- you can send 2 mineral packets from one planet the same turn, by building a packet, updating the base design, and sending another packet of a different kind of minerals. ends up having 2 packets at the same location...

open for comments, cheat or trick?

Cool

robert



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Re: 2 new Bugs to discuss Sat, 25 October 2003 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EDog is currently offline EDog

 
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Robert wrote on Sat, 25 October 2003 06:02


- if you are at the same position as your enemy and want to chase him, then he might set a waypoing without having enough fuel to reach it. The chaser "overshoots" and ends up at a point where the fleet had gone without running out of fuel.
So it is impossible to chase...

- you can send 2 mineral packets from one planet the same turn, by building a packet, updating the base design, and sending another packet of a different kind of minerals. ends up having 2 packets at the same location...

open for comments, cheat or trick?

Cool

robert


Well, the first one is a trick, but to little benefit of the chasee. Essentially he will be stuck with no fuel (or drop to W4) and the chaser can turn around and overtake him the next turn and punish him mightily for having the cojones to try and pull a fast one. Shame Furious

The second one is clearly a bug along the lines of the free starbases bug. If you are going to disallow that one (and any sane host would), this one should be disallowed as well. Where is becomes difficult to catch someone exploiting the free starbases, this one will be very obvious (I'm assuming that a target world would get two "A mass packet has been detected..." messages). Either way, it's naughty. Mad

Thanks for bringing these up, Robert!

EDog



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Re: 2 new Bugs to discuss Sun, 26 October 2003 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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The first one IS open to abuse:

Just include a fuel transport in the fleet, so you generate some new fuel every turn - this way you never get stuck at warp 4 and can continue to 'run out of fuel' attempting to travel at warp 9 on EVERY turn...

Definately a 'cheat/abuse' if it can be used like this. (I haven't tested)

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Re: 2 new Bugs to discuss Sun, 26 October 2003 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

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Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Yes, I see this is important to discuss...

Especially as I think exactly the opposide! Shocked

To compare the multi-minral-packet trick with the cheap starbase trick is not really correct. With the cheap starbase trick you get something without paying for it, with the multi mineral trick you have to pay for the second base, and as you have to change the massdriver types/numbers, and massdrivers cost a lot, it is quite expensive.

So you get nothing for free, and realistically, if you build a completely new driver, why not also a new packet?

As for the cheap starbase trick:
yes it is a bug, and yes you get something for free. The problem is that you cant control it well. So i put a lot of thinking into consequences when this would be allowed. What happens? Some say IT gains an advantage. Maybe... Gates are cheaper for IT, now everybody can build gates for free. Also now everybody can build massdrivers for free, more disadvantage for IT.
So, I dont think IT has much of an advantage.

What happens is, that it changes the way the game is played.
People will tend to grab space and planets much more quickly,
and once they got a planet it will be theirs for a while...
It is just different, usually you distribute pop to have efficient growth, now you would distribute pop to grab planets quickly...

The only PRT with real disadvantate is the AR. AR cant use the trick.

So... in normal games where you cant check I am usually very paranoid... I watch neighbours very carefully, checking designs and estimated resources if he did not cheat... makes me not feel much better... so... i am not sure...

I guess either you allow it, or you need a neutral third party to check, and really check here and there. If someone is caught, kick him out... If you got no neutral third party, well...

In the end: what is victory worth, if you know you achieved it by cheatint? But not everybody thinks like this...

Ok: to the fuel bug...

I think this is cheating!

You have no chance to chase someone, and this can be abused to destroy minerals once your planet has been attacked. load mins into freighers move them away using the trick, and next turn scrap, or delete the design... ok - stupid example... SD can lay
minefields this way and cant be caught... there are more examples i guess... harmful ones...

and if you like to test, you can calculate the coordinates you will arrive and send another fuel transport... whatever...

IMO this is a cheat...

so... still open for discussion i guess (in the end each host has to decide on his own, and players have to follow).

my 2 cents

Robert



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Re: 2 new Bugs to discuss Sun, 26 October 2003 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
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Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
One more thing to mention:

This question has been raised before, by Blue Turbit.
But it seems nobody really cared...

I am just asking again, I am not the one who brought up the issue initially...

ok, thats it...

Robert




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Re: 2 new Bugs to discuss Tue, 28 October 2003 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kotk

 
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Registered: May 2003
Robert wrote on Sun, 26 October 2003 15:40

One more thing to mention:

This question has been raised before, by Blue Turbit.
But it seems nobody really cared...



Huh? What exactly *is* the question? Confused

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