Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Best way to top off planets
Best way to top off planets |
Sun, 10 July 2011 16:03 |
|
Void | | Ensign | Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011 Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
Consider the following situation:
You're playing a +F race and you have two good (let's call them 100%) planets, both with 100k colonists. These planets are distant from your empire, but relatively close together (let's call it one turn away). You want to get both of these planets to 100% capacity.
Two questions:
- First, what's the fastest way to get both planets at 100%?
- Second, what's the best way to get both planets to 100%, while maximizing resource availability?
By 'maximizing resource availability' I want the greatest number of resources as summed up over the time it takes to get both planets to 100% capacity.
I'm sure there's some fancy calculus that could help figure this out, and if anyone has that please post it. More realistically, I'd like to hear how you would do it. Would it be a single strategy? Or would you use one strategy up to a certain threshold, then employ an other, then another, etc.?
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Sun, 10 July 2011 22:05 |
|
|
Taking you up on the "realistic" approach.
I would hold the HW between 25%-33%.
I would go for yearly transports keeping the HW at 25%.
Once my factories reach the 25% hold level, I would raise it to 33%.
I would ship the extra pop to the nearest planet. (Both are already 100% or capable of getting to 100%?.. If the later, I would send it to the better planet).
Assuming a GR of 18%, at 25%, with OBRM, you would have about 495k growth in a year. 2 privateer worth.
By the time you get to LFs, you would be at 33% hold (or even 45% depending on your play style).
Get the nearest planet to 25% along with enough germ and then redivert the HW pop to the 2nd planet, along with a cyclic transport between the 1st and 2nd planet, shipping off any pop > 25% to the 2nd planet.
Once both of them are 25%, I would look at other planets nearby, keeping these 2 as breeders.
Nmid.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Sun, 10 July 2011 22:17 |
|
Void | | Ensign | Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011 Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
nmid wrote on Sun, 10 July 2011 19:05 | Taking you up on the "realistic" approach.
|
Excellent!
Quote: | Once both of them are 25%, I would look at other planets nearby, keeping these 2 as breeders.
|
Now you get to the interesting part and go elsewhere.
Finding and filling new planets is easy. What I'm looking for is the optimal algorithm for topping off two planets, which are in close proximity to one another.
Do I get them both up to 33%, then use the breeder to top off the other one? Or is there a better approach? Either way, what's the best way to top off the breeder? Hold 'x' colonists in orbit until I reach max pop - the hold number, then drop them back down?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Sun, 10 July 2011 22:33 |
|
|
Ah....
Well, I remember reading about it on the forums.. (I'll post links later).
What I read said that you would be better of in the long run keeping pop on hold in orbit and then topping it off in 1 go.
So using the theory and applying it on games I play, here's what I do.
With 2 planets next to each other, I would keep one planet at 25%, use it to top of the 2nd planet to 45% and then top off the 1st planet to 45% from the overflow.
Once both are 45%, I would resume holding pop to top it off to 100%.
I would hold pop in orbit on both planets and then top off 1 to 100%.
Then hold pop in orbit for the 2nd planet and top that in 1 pop-drop.
(Edit - I was thinking of 38%, even though it's been discussed it's not better than 45%, to get the MAXIMUM possible resources..).
Supporting figures
Growth at % with pop on ground
481kt at 48% with 5280kt, vs
505kt at 45% with 4950kt, vs
522kt at 42% with 4620kt, vs
539kt at 38% with 4180kt, vs
549kt at 32% with 3520kt, vs
523kt at 25% with 2750kt, vs
From 25% to 45%, I don't loose any growth in real numbers (not talking about % growth) AND I have an additional 20% on ground (2200kt pop) with the corresponding increase in usable factories.
Edit - Correction made (42% to 45% and reference of 38%).
[Updated on: Mon, 11 July 2011 02:58]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Mon, 11 July 2011 02:48 |
|
iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1209
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
Void wrote on Mon, 11 July 2011 04:17 | What I'm looking for is the optimal algorithm for topping off two planets, which are in close proximity to one another.
|
For non-IS PRTs there are 3 held levels for breeders: 25%, 33% and 45%. 25% gives most pop from existing pop, 33% gives max pop with more infrastructure operating, and near 45% (easy_to_remember 500k pop on 100% planet with OBRM) is the breakpoint where growth starts declining rapidly and has also lots of infra operative.
There are also some "rules of the thumb":
- max smaller, mineral-rich and endangered planets earlier,
- max larger planets next,
- max low-mineral breeders last or even never.
In your case and assuming both planets are approximately of the same quality and not in danger, I'd let them grow to 45% and then start lifting pop from both and drop it back when I'd have enough to max them, saving some 100k pop for eventual colonization (both planets are far from your core worlds - far from other breeders).
BR, Iztok
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | |
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Mon, 11 July 2011 10:08 |
|
Void | | Ensign | Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011 Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
iztok wrote on Sun, 10 July 2011 23:48 | In your case and assuming both planets are approximately of the same quality and not in danger, I'd let them grow to 45% and then start lifting pop from both and drop it back when I'd have enough to max them, saving some 100k pop for eventual colonization (both planets are far from your core worlds - far from other breeders).
|
So you're approach would be to treat each planet on its own; interesting. My original thought had been to use one planet as a breeder and hold it at 33% and us it to fill the other planet. Then bring it up to 45% before lifting pop to drop back down later.
So on your approach, how much pop should I lift before dropping it? All that's required to get to max capacity? Or, say, half, and let the planet get itself to the 75% mark?
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | |
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Mon, 11 July 2011 14:18 |
|
BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
|
Quote: | My original thought had been to use one planet as a breeder and hold it at 33% and us it to fill the other planet. Then bring it up to 45% before lifting pop to drop back down later.
|
That's what I would do. By maximizing the pop on planet two, and holding the pop on planet one to about 33%.
Why? Because planet two is not only growing in pop resources, but also building factories and mines (more resources) to maximum during that period. So you will end up with 1300 or so more resources by the time planet two is maxed out, versus holding both worlds at 33% and loading all excess pop to freighters. Those freighter pop are wasting resources during that growth period.
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
|
|
| | | | | |
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Tue, 12 July 2011 09:40 |
|
magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
|
Quote: | Not so sure with more than one planet and the possibility of using some to fill others. The easiest way's probably to fill one at a time rather than hold vast amounts of pop in freighters (the amount of resources you'll expend holding that much pop is itself probably more than the amount you'll save).
|
BlueTurbit wrote on Tue, 12 July 2011 04:18 | That's what I would do. By maximizing the pop on planet two, and holding the pop on planet one to about 33%.
Why? Because planet two is not only growing in pop resources, but also building factories and mines (more resources) to maximum during that period. So you will end up with 1300 or so more resources by the time planet two is maxed out, versus holding both worlds at 33% and loading all excess pop to freighters. Those freighter pop are wasting resources during that growth period.
|
I solved this problem. The answer (if not holding pop in freighters) is rather simple (assuming the formula on the wiki is correct)...
Let them grow to 2/3 (67%) each, then fill planet 2 completely from planet 1 (stripping planet 1 down to 1/3).
Reasoning:
- if not holding pop in freighters, the only relevant criterion to maximise is pop growth (unless you're AR, which is a whole different can of worms).
- the point at which one should start using different amounts of pop on the two planets is the inflection point of the growth curve with amount of pop.
- this inflection point is at 2/3.
- Hence, below 2/3, one gets less growth if you put more pop on one planet and less on the other, while above 2/3, one gets more growth if you put more pop on one planet and less on the other.
- Hence, below 2/3, the best growth is obtained by keeping pop on the two worlds equal (ie, just letting it grow), while after that, growth is maximised by keeping more pop on one planet than the other (and since 2/3 is halfway between 1/3 and 100%, you can simply fill one on the spot).
- This analysis is only valid for planets of equal value. If they're of unequal value, then you should always have more population on the worse world. How much? It varies.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | |
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Wed, 13 July 2011 08:49 |
|
BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
|
Quote: | Let them grow to 2/3 (67%) each, then fill planet 2 completely from planet 1 (stripping planet 1 down to 1/3).
|
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Wed, 13 July 2011 09:20 |
|
|
BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 18:19 |
Quote: | Let them grow to 2/3 (67%) each, then fill planet 2 completely from planet 1 (stripping planet 1 down to 1/3).
|
|
Entertaining though a post war might be, could I suggest posting the game files here(along with the backup 20-30 years)?
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
| |
Re: Best way to top off planets |
Wed, 13 July 2011 11:21 |
|
magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
|
BlueTurbit wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 22:49 |
Quote: | Let them grow to 2/3 (67%) each, then fill planet 2 completely from planet 1 (stripping planet 1 down to 1/3).
|
|
Did you prebuild?
Also, once you've done that, you'd hold the non-full world at 48% to fill. I didn't mention that because I thought it was obvious.
And no, it doesn't give a vast amount more growth, but it does give some.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu May 30 08:01:24 EDT 2024
|